need more power

Sal Paradise

Hooligan
Sal,
All I have to say, is head on down to your local Suzuki dealer and take one out. The bike is outrageously fast. The high RPM low torque thing doesn't apply here. It literally doesn't care what gear you are in. When I pass a car going 60 on my bonneville, I want to be in the right gear. Not so on this bike. It doesn't matter. It hits 110 in the blink of an eye no matter what gear you are in. 190 hp...just shy of the Busa.
In fact, comparing this bike to a bonnie...its almost hard to call them both motorcycles they are so different. This thing is more of a rocket than a motorcycle. Its like driving a Formula 1 car on the street. I wouldn't own one.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles...x-r1000-25th-anniversary-edition-ar64389.html


Oh, Yeah .....no comparison. I dont think is for me but I see what you mean. Very different.

Two guys around the corner from me both have nearly identical 'Busa's and we go to the same BBQ in the neighborhood. Stuck up guys who's first bike ever is 200 HP. From what they tell me they basically find straight roads some place nearby and get up to 120+ and then come back. They stand around staring at their I-phones a lot. They claim to not know any of the mountain roads I know, they just know some highways and urban strips. To them my bike is a scooter.
 
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Speed3Chris

I like Dick
not drinking this morning but I am tempted to after reading your posts
To elaborate, most motorcycles today are designed with the engine as an integral part of the frame structure. This reduces overall weight. The redundancy of having the engine not share in the structure of the frame adds weight. If you want to get more technical we can. The bonneville in terms of reducing its weight is at a disadvantage compared to modern motorcycles is the point.
It has a heavy steel frame with redundant frame structure because the engine isn't load bearing. Therefore if you
reduce component weight to that of other lighter motorcycles, the bonneville will still weigh more.

I think most understood the reference I made but for some reason it went over your head or you just want to be a dick. If you don't care to clarify what I said that you don't agree with, then you are simply trolling.
 
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Speed3Chris

I like Dick
Oh, Yeah .....no comparison. I dont think is for me but I see what you mean. Very different.

Two guys around the corner from me both have nearly identical 'Busa's and we go to the same BBQ in the neighborhood. Stuck up guys who's first bike ever is 200 HP. From what they tell me they basically find straight roads some place nearby and get up to 120+ and then come back. They stand around staring at their I-phones a lot. They claim to not know any of the mountain roads I know, they just know some highways and urban strips. To them my bike is a scooter.
Kind of how I felt after yesterday's ride. :)
 

dschief

750cc
To elaborate, most motorcycles today are designed with the engine as an integral part of the frame structure. This reduces overall weight. The redundancy of having the engine not share in the structure of the frame adds weight. If you want to get more technical we can. The bonneville in terms of reducing its weight is at a disadvantage compared to modern motorcycles is the point.
It has a heavy steel frame with redundant frame structure because the engine isn't load bearing. Therefore if you
reduce component weight to that of other lighter motorcycles, the bonneville will still weigh more.

I think most understood the reference I made but for some reason it went over your head or you just want to be a dick. If you don't care to clarify what I said that you don't agree with, then you are simply trolling.

I might be wrong (what else is new?), but I thought that the new Bonneville's frame used the engine as a stressed member (ie: it's part of the frame). That's why the lower frame rails are removable, and you could, in effect, remove them completely from the bike. I know my '98 Adventurer, with a steel spine frame, had no lower frame rails at all. The lower frame rails were only added to give "the look" of a loop frame, as the older bikes had.
 

Speed3Chris

I like Dick
I might be wrong (what else is new?), but I thought that the new Bonneville's frame used the engine as a stressed member (ie: it's part of the frame). That's why the lower frame rails are removable, and you could, in effect, remove them completely from the bike. I know my '98 Adventurer, with a steel spine frame, had no lower frame rails at all. The lower frame rails were only added to give "the look" of a loop frame, as the older bikes had.

If you are correct then I supposed the whole thing is a moot point because Triumph elects to have redundancy with the engine shouldering the burden of frame loading and yet there be token frame members purely for aesthetic reasons. I sure wouldn't want to be the guinea pig on removing the rails but if somebody has taken them off and ridden successfully it would be good to know as a weight savings opportunity for those that believe that function should drive form.

In my experience, having a sectioned frame with removable frame rails across brands is more about ease of assembling the bike and installation/removal of the engine when the engine isn't weight bearing. Frame rails connected with fasteners as in the case of the bonneville is more expensive than welding the entire frame as a sectioned unit. By contrast, a unitized or welded frame would compromise packaging and space efficiency if the engine wasn’t weigh bearing without being able to remove rails for access. The motor in other words fits more efficiently inside a sectioned frame from a weight and packaging standpoint versus sitting on the frame which would have to be taller without having the ability to disassemble the frame.

Below show two Triumph frames. Notice the contrasting frame designs. The Street Triple clearly has the engine as a load bearing member. It is part of the frame. The frame doesn't close on itself which is critical to strength if the engine is isolated and not load bearing. Also note the access for the engine to the frame. In the case of the Street Triple, nothing has to be removed to install the engine into the frame because it is part of it. Contrast that with the old school construction of the bonneville.

Other noteworthy traits as a technical sidebar include steel having smaller frame sections because it has 3x's the yield strength of aluminum. Much of the weight advantage of aluminum in fact is diminished by the fact that a much larger volume has to be used to offset its strength disadvantage. Also, Aluminum is inherently a much more flexible material than steel and yet the net stiffness of most aluminum frames is higher than that of steel because of the larger sections of aluminum necessary to make it strong enough. The net result is Aluminum frames are lighter than steel frames but not as much of a difference as many would believe by the difference in respective material densities. Not using the engine as a load bearing member is a bigger factor than material selection. Also steel tends to ride a bit smoother because of inherent damping qualities.

Bottom line in this discussion is a bonneville even with comparable components will never be as light as a Street Triple due to the native frame differences. Does this matter to most that buy a bike like the bonneville?
It doesn't to me but if I have a chance to casually take weight out of the bike as others have, I try and do it.

TriumphFrameComparison.jpg
 
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2Monkeys

Street Tracker
If you look at Bonneville Performance you will see a few bikes that are set up with lower frame rails removed. Custom bracket to catch the front of the case. Not sure how advisable it is, but it has been done.

http://www.bonnevilleperformance.com/street_tracker.htm

P.S. I've been told that the key to being a good writer and being able to convey information is linked to ones ability to be concise.
 
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Speed3Chris

I like Dick
If you look at Bonneville Performance you will see a few bikes that are set up with lower frame rails removed. Custom bracket to catch the front of the case. Not sure how advisable it is, but it has been done.

http://www.bonnevilleperformance.com/street_tracker.htm

P.S. I've been told that the key to being a good writer and being able to convey information is linked to ones ability to be concise.

Actually Monk, the key to being a good writer is knowing what you are talking about. Sadly, in your case you don’t.
No worries, I forgive you. :kick:

FlatTrackerCustomFrame.jpg
 
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Speed3Chris

I like Dick
:snack:

I think it's time to put this to rest.
The Flat Tracker in Monk's link is an interesting bike. Not my cup on a number of levels...especially for $26K. On the subject of power...I also am not a fan of Weisco ductile iron liners to grow the engine size....much prefer TPUSA's Nikasil kits.
To be clear, that bike isn't a bonneville. Its a custom motorcycle and doesn't share any parts with a bonneville except for the engine cases....lol.
 
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em_dot

Street Tracker
I think it's time to put this to rest.

+1. In Summary:

A used Speed3 is best value for a young buck looking to go faster on a young buck's budget. Nothing wrong with it, and everyone has been that guy at one point in their life.

More seasoned gentlemen can put a few more clams into their classics as they are more established in their careers. The victor get the spoils as it were...

We done here? 'Cause we need to get back to talking about tires and oil!
 

drlapo

Hooligan
i just can't let this go
of course the frame is load bearing
maybe the engine is not but certainly the frame is
lets consider the load on the front tire which is transferrred to the wheel rim to the spokes to the hub to the axle to the fork tubes to the fork "trees" to the stem to the steering neck of the frame: which bears the load
 

2Monkeys

Street Tracker
Did anyone actually say that the frame wasn't load bearing?

My bad on the "custom bracket" bit, just saw the pict and made an assumption. Although I suppose if I wanted to prove how manly I am I could argue that the whole flat track frame is a "custom bracket" lol I digress.
 

Sal Paradise

Hooligan
RIP SpeedChris.

I took a short ride this evening, nice winding back roads, 55 mph cruise and came up on a car , so next short passing zone I dropped a gear, probably two and cranked it on. Hit 80 mph (indicated) by the time I passed his front fender. Leaves on the road, getting dark, afraid of deer so I slowed back down. Would have hit 90 in another second had I pressed on.

Good enough, I think
 
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