If you touch my junk...

[Bonniebret]

This may or may not have already been covered but how much are you supposed to tip after you get a pat down? Does the same $2 a bag rule apply?

 

[KingBear]

This may or may not have already been covered but how much are you supposed to tip after you get a pat down? Does the same $2 a bag rule apply?

Where the hell do you get that? They're the ones who should be tipping, and the groping should be considered "extras" (think strip clubs).

 

[KingBear]

UPDATE

For those of you who are of the "If you don't like it, just don't fly" way of thinking, you might be interested in this...

Next step for body scanners could be trains, boats, metro
By Jordy Yager - 11/23/10 02:09 PM ET

The next step in tightened security could be on U.S. public transportation, trains and boats.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary.

“[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on "Charlie Rose."

“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

Napolitano’s comments, made a day before one of the nation’s busiest travel days, come in the wake of a public outcry over newly implemented airport screening measures that have been criticized for being too invasive.

The secretary has defended the new screening methods, which include advanced imaging systems and pat-downs, as necessary to stopping terrorists. During the interview with Rose, Napolitano said her agency is now looking into ways to make other popular means of travel safer for passengers and commuters.

Napolitano isn’t the only one who’s suggested that advanced scanning machines could be used in places beyond airports.

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, introduced legislation this past September that would authorize testing of body scanners at some federal buildings.

Napolitano’s comments were in response to the question: “What will they [terrorists] be thinking in the future?” She gave no details about how soon the public could see changes in security or about what additional safety measures the DHS was entertaining.

The recently implemented airport screening methods have made John Pistole, who heads the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the focus of growing public ire.

On Monday, Pistole said he understood peoples’ privacy concerns and that the TSA would consider modifying its screening policies to make them “as minimally invasive as possible,” but he indicated the advanced-imaging body scans and pat-down methods would remain in place in the short term, including during the high-volume Thanksgiving period of travel.

Lawmakers from both parties have received hundreds of complaints about the new methods — some have likened the pat-downs to groping — and have called on Pistole to address the privacy concerns of their constituents, who were not informed about changes ahead of time.

Many lawmakers say the public should have been informed before the pat-downs and body-imaging techniques were put into practice. As a result, any move to implement new security screening measures for rail or water passengers is likely to be met with tough levels of scrutiny from lawmakers.

Pistole, who spent 26 years with the FBI, told reporters Monday that he rejected the advice of media aides who advised him to publicize the revised security measures before they took effect. Terrorist groups have been known to study the TSA’s screening methods in an attempt to circumvent them, he said.

Napolitano said she hoped the U.S. could get to a place in the future where Americans would not have to be as guarded against terrorist attacks as they are and that she was actively promoting research into the psychology of how a terrorist becomes radicalized.

“The long-term [question] is, how do we get out of this having to have an ever-increasing security apparatus because of terrorists and a terrorist attack?” she said. “I think having a better understanding of what causes someone to become a terrorist will be helpful."

DHS and intelligence officials are not as far along in understanding that process as they would like, Napolitano said, adding that until that goal is reached, steps need to be put in place to ensure the public’s safety.

“We don’t know much,” she said. “If you were to try and devise a template about what connects this terrorist to this terrorist and how they were raised and what schools they went to and their socioeconomic status, or this or that, it’s all over the map.

“I think there’s some important work that’s being done on that but … the Secretary of Homeland Security cannot wait for that.”

I guess you're going to have to amend your philosophy to "If you don't like it, just don't leave your house."

 

[Bonniebret]

Where the hell do you get that? They're the ones who should be tipping, and the groping should be considered "extras" (think strip clubs).

I AM thinking of the strip clubs! Seriously, how much for a happy ending? I'm thinking of maybe someone with pudgy hands.

 

[sweatmachine]

 

[BlueJ]

..air travel is not a luxury, it is as much a right as walking down the street.

Oh I disagree. It's quite a luxury product for most folks due to the cost. And it's a product (or maybe a service). You can live without it. If you choose to buy the product, you willingly enter into the contract and you know what you're getting for your money. If your not happy with what you're getting, don't buy it. Simple.

Walking down the street is the same deal, if you don't own the street. You gotta play by the owner's rules (including "No trespassing, stay out" if the street is so labelled). So unless you're flying your own airplane to and from your own airports, you have to come to grips with the fact that you need to play by the rules of the airplane/airline/airport owners, if you want to play. But nobody is forcing you to play.

 

[BlueJ]

I can't stop flying unless I quit my job. I'm not going to quit my job.

That's a personal choice that is within your power and your rights to make. But know that it is a choice you actively made, not one that was forced on you against your will.

I can ...

1) Slow up the process for everyone else.

Gretsch, I'm a fan of yours, but that's pretty effing selfish of you, to decide that you have the right to subject others to inconvenience just because you aren't happy about your end of the deal of the choice you made. Especially when those you are inconvencing have nothing to do with you or your choices or the rules.

..there are legitimate concerns about radiation.

Not really. Riding your motorcycle is WAAAAYYYY more dangerous, statistics-wise, than the accumlated radiation from a lifetime of full-body scans.

 

[Gretsch]

That's a personal choice that is within your power and your rights to make. But know that it is a choice you actively made, not one that was forced on you against your will.

Agreed. I'm a free man and choose to have a job that allows me to travel and make a living. I'm just saying that I'm not quitting and I need to fly as part of my job. What none of us have/had a choice about is these new rules. To be clear here, they are rules made by bureaucrats not laws. Laws have to pass constitutional tests, legislators have their constituents to answer to etc. so in that sense, I can have an impact on laws. When it comes to arbitrary and capricious rule-making we're subjugated to the whims of an unelected official.

Gretsch, I'm a fan of yours, but that's pretty effing selfish of you, to decide that you have the right to subject others to inconvenience just because you aren't happy about your end of the deal of the choice you made. Especially when those you are inconvencing have nothing to do with you or your choices or the rules.

Thanks Jay and back atcha'. I guess we see things differently. I think it's necessary to engage in a bit of civil disobedience when my and my fellow travelers constitutional rights are being infringed. If I were the only one who felt this way then no big deal. How long would the hold up be? Seconds probably. The fact is that there's a LOT of people that feel the same way. Hopefully this situation will prove to be so untenable that our "leaders" will revisit the issue.

Not really. Riding your motorcycle is WAAAAYYYY more dangerous, statistics-wise, than the accumlated radiation from a lifetime of full-body scans.

Is it?
"Brenner said the risk to an individual is "very small indeed" for a single scan. He said he is most concerned about frequent fliers, pilots and young people, because children are more sensitive to radiation. "

I'm not sure anyone can say since we don't know what the long term impacts will be. I fly very often so my level of exposure would be much higher than the average commuter. This is one of the things pilots are concerned about. At altitude we're all sucking up more radiation than normal. No need to exacerbate the situation.

The sad part is this is all just security theater anyway.

 

[Bonniebret]

I still think having to take my shoes is a bigger pain in the ass than a pat down or body scan.

Maybe they can have two lines. One for those who want to protest and another for those of us bad Americans who in the eyes of others "don't give a damn" and want to just get on a plane a go. It would be nice to ride in a half empty plane again.

 

[B06Tang]

True to that...the 4th amendment is pain in the ass anyways

 

[BlueJ]

The sad part is this is all just security theater anyway.

+1 to that!

 

[Bonniebret]

+1 to that!

As George Carlin said "...to make white people feel safe." I think in this case it's more to give the illusion that the government is doing it's job. Too late for that.

With that, Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Safe travels where ever you choose to fly or not fly to.

 

[KingBear]

If I were a person with nefarious intentions I wouldn't target airliners - too much risk, passengers and flight crews are hardened and already suspicious, etc. No, I'd target shopping malls on Black Friday. More potential victims, little or no risk of getting caught, nothing unusual about heavy clothing to cover explosives, and it would have a huge economic impact if people became afraid to go shopping over the holidays.

BUT, thank goodness shopping in a mall is a privilege, not a right, because mall stores are more expensive than Walmart. Whenever you have a choice, the more expensive option is a privilege, therefore you give up your rights to privacy and unwarranted search by patronizing the mall. So Shitcretary Napolitano is free to stand outside and grope each shopper personally before they enter the mall.

I feel safer already. :woot:

 

[Gretsch]

Happy T-day to all! For the record, I'm not traveling today and will not be part of any protest. I'm choosing to opt out permanently (as in every time I fly). I think it's counter productive to piss off the public on the one day of the year they're trying to get home to see their families. I think it should be a more ongoing effort anyway if the point is to be made. Once businesses start to see lost productivity I bet the TSA will decide to reexamine their stance.

It sounds like our former DHS head Michael Chertoff is laughing all the way to the bank on this.


Who watches the watchmen?

 

[KingBear]

Despite everything, we never seem to lose our sense of humor...

 

[Norvel]

Despite everything, we never seem to lose our sense of humor...

Wow,I can see the Monday Morning Headline now... "Free Peep Show - Any Airport - USA"

 

[oldmanjob]

If people would wise up, and no one show up for their flights for one or two days, this whole procedure would be thrown out, and bring back profiling. Political correctness is the down fall of this great country of ours.

 

[FoothillRyder]

If people would wise up, and no one show up for their flights for one or two days, this whole procedure would be thrown out, and bring back profiling. Political correctness is the down fall of this great country of ours.

BINGO!

and +1 on your sig :cheer: