Babysitting some hairy misfits

sweatmachine

sweatmachine

moped
Bonafide said:
Why? Cause you think he'd be suffering? Ridiculous. Not as ridiculous as Hedge feeding his dog all that gourmet breakfast stuff - but still ridiculous. I figured you were the dog's problem ... cant fix you.

BTW - your dog is suffering from separation anxiety. Acting out due to the stress of you leaving without him. You created it and allowed it to build into a fester.

:shrug:
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Hedge said:
The Dude is 100% correct again! Your dog is pissed off at you!
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T-boy said:
Yup!
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ok, oh dog whisperers of this forum, what to do? Crate his ass from 5:30am to 5:30pm? Isn't 12 hours in a crate too long? I know he's pissed that I'm not around as much, but I gots to pay the bills! The fucker is eating me out of house and home, literally! He ate a hole in the sheetrock bigger than my head!
 
sweatmachine

sweatmachine

moped
here's a pic the "little" fucker sitting in my truck last weekend, on a trip to see my folks.

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Sal Paradise

Sal Paradise

Hooligan
I have noticed one of these dogs walking every now and then in the park.Did not know what type of dog, but yep thats the one. It is usually struggling wildly against the owner ( a creepy little old man) and it appears to be large and very menacing. Why people who can't handle these animals buy them as pets and bring them around big crowds I will never know. They were bred for specific roles and behaviors and the owner can't handle them as pets, crated, housebound and untrained.. Dogs need to live according to their "nature" for lack of a better term.

I would agree with Bonafide ( if i read him right) that rolling the dog on his back is a good way to send a message when he misbehaves.

Jeff - Personally I do not and would not use a crate - I think the potential for stress is there, and I have never found it necessary. My dogs are usually excellent. I am no dog whisperer but I have had dogs all my life ( mostly labs) and most turned out well trained and well tempered. Chewing as you describe is an adolescent immature behavior and they quickly grow out of it. But the extra patience and relationship building are more important than a chewed sneaker.
 
grumpy_1944

grumpy_1944

750cc
OMG, now NBR has gone to the dogs!!!:lol::lol2::lol3:

Seriously, if there was someplace in this area to work one I'd love to have a good pointer or setter to hunt with. The farmers around here have cleaned up the fence rows/irrigation cannals, making the common sparrow about extinct. Any areas not sterilized are posted "No Tresspassing". God, I'd love to get out of Kalifornia.
 
Bonafide

Bonafide

NBR founder
Sal ...

When we sell a working pup - we ALWAYS stress this will not make a good house pet and it's not recommended for an inexperienced owner/handler - some listen - but I've found most people think they know more about dogs than they actually do. I'm a professional police K9 handler/trainer ... and just trying to help, but while I can offer some advice, I'm not there in person and without the timing and correct response for behavior ... it can be lost in translation. Then there's the fact that the issues arewith the owner ... not the dog. If you accept it's a dog .. and understand his instinctual/environmental drives .. it'll make things sooo much easier.

As for rolling a dog - no - it's not a necessary technique as a correction for misbehavior. Most times I can just give 'aahhh ahhhh' audible growl and get results. Dogs respond to voice reflections; Command, Praise, Correction. They all have different reflective octaves in voice tones - but when the dog ignores the correction being given and intentionally goes against who's in charge ... he gets rolled. I'm telling the dog "I'M IN CHARGE" and doing it with an exclamation point. There's also certain body gestures from the dog that I need to see before I let him back up. Sometimes it goes easy ... some times it does not. When training a police K9 handler - I'll stress that he/she doesnt need to attempt this technique without the dog being in muzzle. The dogs we train usually have sooo much RANK drive that it can be dangerous for injury.

As for crates; they DO NOT cause stress in a dog. They do give the dog a safe haven. They will learn this safe place - equate this to how a teenager sees their room. They can close the door, turn their music up, and ignore the world. There is NO CONFLICT when they're in the crate. You give no corrections when they're in it. It's their own litlle safe place that gives protection, provides a cave, cubby-hole, etc. from stress and conflict. If your dog raises hell when you put them in one .. and you let them out and they're all happy ... then they have trained you well.
 
D9

D9

Vendor
Damned interesting to hear some of what does into training the dogs!

The local PD holds a youth academy every year... it's gotten so popular it's
getting tough to get in... my youngest son has gone for the last four years... one of the activities they get to do is spend some time with the K9 unit - here's a few pics from this year - the dog's name is Khaos.

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http://www.millstadtpolice.org/youthgallery/2009/index.html
 
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Sal Paradise

Sal Paradise

Hooligan
Dude,

Dont get me wrong I was just reflecting about the difference between having this type of dog and say, a Lab. I don't have any expertise in this. I have heard the same thing about the crate that you say. Anyway I am sure these are great dogs and I would love to have one. I appreciate you sharing your expertise on dogs.

I don't remember how many times I have written this or not, so excuse me if I repeat myself; I was very close to my my grandfther who was a NYPD Seargent who kept German Shepherds in the house for the police department. To this day my Dad has only purebred German Shepherds.Anyway - although I really am no expert, I am familiar with them having literally grown up around them and love them. My dad's dogs are probably somewhat different than your dogs, but to me they seem similar. Always great around the house- he puts a lot of effort into them training them but they are good house dogs for him. Still, they sometimes seem to need more attention than he can give them.

I thought the rollover was a good idea instead of hitting the dog? I don't know all the exact timing and signs so maybe I am wrong. I also do the "uhh -uhh" or just a "nooo..." with my 5 yo Lab Moose who is very well tempered and very well trained with no issues. He definately responds to voice tones.

I know what you mean about the dog training the owner. I see that with my Labs and I discourage them from doing that in various ways. At the same time its a give and take as sometimes he acts that way but is just trying to tell me something, like he has no water or he has to go out. But when its all about getting a cookie, then no - I scold him and put him out.
 
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T-boy

T-boy

Rocker
Bonafide said:
As for crates; they DO NOT cause stress in a dog. They do give the dog a safe haven. They will learn this safe place - equate this to how a teenager sees their room. They can close the door, turn their music up, and ignore the world. There is NO CONFLICT when they're in the crate. You give no corrections when they're in it. It's their own litlle safe place that gives protection, provides a cave, cubby-hole, etc. from stress and conflict. If your dog raises hell when you put them in one .. and you let them out and they're all happy ... then they have trained you well.
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+1...However I'm not sure how an 8 month old dog would suddenly take to having his "freedom" taken away. Normally you would start crating the dog when it's a young pup. All of our past and present dogs have been crated for at least the first year of their lives when we were not home and they're no worse for the wear.
 
Bonafide

Bonafide

NBR founder
Sal ...

Malinois might be similar in their appearance to German Shepherds, but these things are waaaay harder to handle. To me, it's like have a damn chainsaw on legs walking about your house. I do NOT recommend them as pets. The same can be said for a GSD that has high working drives (no, all GSDs are not created equal). There is NO WAY I would allow my GSD to free dog in the house off duty. He'd eat my family for just normal playing around - and I'm not going to correct him for establishing his RANK/etc cause I want him at this level when we're working. My life depends on it.

As for Labs - my first K9 partner was a Lab. If we werent working or taking a break - he was in his crate. If not, he'd destroy the house/yard looking for his 'toy'. That's how over the top their drives are instinctively - whereas most pets were bred to lay on your couch.
 
Kirkus51

Kirkus51

Hooligan
On a note about crating dogs for long periods of time.

I don't think dogs have a good concept of time. I know scent dogs will work and work and work until you call them off or they become exhausted. My dog will fetch for hours at a time with small breaks to catch his breath. No concept of time time there like we have. Purely task oriented.

I head out and my dogs are greeting me the same way whether I'm gone for an hour or two hours or five. I also don't make any kind of fuss over them when I get back. I works for me, but I have small dogs.
 
Bonafide

Bonafide

NBR founder
Kirkus ... they're dogs. Elementary brain ... like that of a 4 yr old. They greet you the same way every time because of PACK instincts ... nothing else. If you make a big deal over it, then you're RANKing them higher in the PACK. Basic instincts.
 
Hedge

Hedge

American Infidel
T-boy said:
+1...However I'm not sure how an 8 month old dog would suddenly take to having his "freedom" taken away. Normally you would start crating the dog when it's a young pup. All of our past and present dogs have been crated for at least the first year of their lives when we were not home and they're no worse for the wear.
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I agree with T-boy -I got my dog at 7 weeks old and he was brought home in a small crate. He lived in that until he out grew it and then I transferred him into the largest wire cage. When he jumped through the window and was on the mend I really wanted him relaxed so I put him in his final crate which is the largest you can buy (Petmate Sky Kennel #700-GIANT 48" x 32" x 35")and he absolutely loves it! I swear, at the end of the night he walks right in, goes right to the back, and lays down and is happy! Same thing last night around 7:30pm when my wife and I went out for dinner. He went into the crate and when we got back home around 9:45pm I let him out to hang with me until 11pm lights out. Dogs love crates - in the wild Dogs love caves! It is naturally inherent!
 
Bonafide

Bonafide

NBR founder
Hedge ...

I have several 'air crates' ... it's what is typically used to ship dogs overseas, but my favorite is this (pictured). I attend a K9 seminar every year in the rural backwoods of Florida that's sponsored by this company - American Aluminum - when they came out with this portable crate ... had to have one. Mine is powdercoated black - so no oil/dirt transfers to the dog's coat. Pricey ... but well worth it. My 100-lber fits in it with enough spare room for me.

If you see a Police K9 vehicle ... 85% or better, it has an American Aluminum Inc built kennel mounted in it for the dog.

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sweatmachine

sweatmachine

moped
Ok another issue: I have the 8 mo. old guy and also the 8 year old female. She doesn't tear anything up and is very well-behaved. One thing that freaks both of them out is to separate them (one outside, one inside, etc). I don't know how well the 8 year old would take to crating, but I definitely couldn't crate one and not the other. If I do this, I'll need some good-sized crates. The pup weighs 75 lbs and the 8 year old female is slightly smaller, probably 65 lbs.

Thoughts on crating an 8 year old dog that doesn't really need it, and has never been crated?
 
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