What do YOU guys want if you could have it made?
- Thread starter pattybilt
- Start date
RideWeaver
Scooter
This is a great thread but I'd love to see pics of the mock-ups on the seat hinge and if you have drawings of the engine guard with the integrated highway pegs I'd love to see that too. As a T100 owner that loves to tour on the bike I'd be a customer of anything that enables better touring. A rear rack that can actually hold stuff...the bigger tank...mounting kits for hard bags that have some strength to them...etc.. Looking forward to what you have to offer, good luck!
Friday, should be THEE day for flip up seats! Ill take some pics and post them up as soon as humanly possible. I know that the bonneville, scrambler and thruxton seats are all interchangable, but im wondering if the base of the seats are similar to one another? Anyone have any pics of the bottom of these seats? I would like to make a kit that will work for all three of the variations.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Seats on EFI bikes have fractionally more room underneath to house EFI electronics under seat. That said, many have had success fitting an old seat to an EFI bike so the difference isn't much and likely will be unaffected by your hardware.
There are a number of design parameters that need to be met to have an effective mechanism that will stand the test of time. The seat experiences considerable side to side and fore and aft stresses while riding and the latch mechanism and hinge will have to endure these stresses in terms of fatigue life. Perhaps the most daunting design challenge is attaching the hinge mechanism to the seat itself. Self tapping screws will likely be ineffective and that means the seat cover and foam will need to be removed to provide female fasteners on the top side of the pan to ensure solid attachment. Perhaps you can come up with a workaround here adapting the stock mounting scheme but this will prove challenging. A suggestion is you may want to do some beta testing before rushing to market...a successful design i.e. durability performance is much more than a latch and hinge that is functional.
There are a number of design parameters that need to be met to have an effective mechanism that will stand the test of time. The seat experiences considerable side to side and fore and aft stresses while riding and the latch mechanism and hinge will have to endure these stresses in terms of fatigue life. Perhaps the most daunting design challenge is attaching the hinge mechanism to the seat itself. Self tapping screws will likely be ineffective and that means the seat cover and foam will need to be removed to provide female fasteners on the top side of the pan to ensure solid attachment. Perhaps you can come up with a workaround here adapting the stock mounting scheme but this will prove challenging. A suggestion is you may want to do some beta testing before rushing to market...a successful design i.e. durability performance is much more than a latch and hinge that is functional.
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Thank you Speed3Chris. I am not sure if many riders think about the various amounts of stress the seat itself is subjected to. To tell you the truth, I actually do not feel safe with the current factory set up, when you sit on, or in a seat, of any machine it should not flex or "pop", to me this, among other things, has always cheapened the bike. So far, the biggest challenge has been finding a way to attach the seat to the hinge, without tearing the top off, while providing the support needed to keep the seat safely in place, my design will also provide much needed rigidity to the seat "pan" as well. The placement of the hinge, or rather two hinges, on the frame was the easy part. I will definitely be running my prototype hinge/bracket assembly through the ringer, both single and two up of course.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
We both agree that is the biggest challenge to creating the design. Unless the seat has bosses built in for the contingency to mount the hinge, you need to add some female machine threaded fasteners to the top side of the pan requiring removal of the seat cover and lifting of the foam. This isn't a complete show stopper however Patty as many may still want to mount your mechanism requiring some surgery be performed to the seat pan. If you can't come up with an elegant solution here...consider selling your own signature seat..perhaps 2 up and cafe models...with built in mechanism. Although expanding the scope of your development, this would take the guess work out of the owner modifying his seat to accomodate your mechanism and give you a niche market on your product and even greater opportunity for profit. The problem with not going this route is there is very little you can mount to naturally under the pan that won't compromise the location of the hinge. You are also going to be challenged with getting the seat height down to stock position ideally using the factory rubber bumpers that locate to the top of the frame rails. Maybe you have already looked at a few hinged seats out there but when creating a new design a little competitive analysis never hurts. Maybe others can suggest a motorcycle to look at with this feature for more ideas or post some pics of a production seat hinge.
Best of luck. I believe you will sell a bunch of them when you nail the design.
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tooblekain
750cc
Very true....or the other alternative is a "core exchange"
great idea
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Really an excellent idea tooblekain. Patty, I hope you give this consideration.
Since the underside of pans for most of the different seats sold for these bikes are pretty close in shape, you as a company could take the core seat and perform the installation of your mechanism on a more reliable basis than an owner could.
You could develop an in house jig for example for reliably drilling the holes in the pan for your hinge with the cover and foam locally lifted away from this area. This would ensure repeatable location of the hinge and attaching mechanism which is critical for proper alignment of the seat to the bike. No doubt over time you would refine how to lift the cover locally to insert female fasteners on the top side....much more reliable than what a owner could do at home and therefore higher customer satisfaction. This would reduce your development by not having to develop your own signature seat line...although that maybe a good stretch goal and profit opportunity.
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I guess I have to wonder,what is it under the seat that we need to access so often,that we need a flip up seat? A hinged seat will require the loss of all 5 factory hold down points.[2 bolts,2 hooks and the plastic "tongue" ] This will require substantial reinforcement of the top and bottom of the flimsy plastic pan,to provide the new mounting points [hinges and latch] Some modification to the frame rails will be needed to allow continued use of the side covers and or racks and rails. I have torn apart lots of stock seats and a few Corbins,and the Corbin pan,IMO is the only non custom made pan sufficiently built to handle the new load on the seat pan. Fiberglass and steel are the only materials that lend themselves to a hinged seat,but then you get into increased seat height and thickness,foam and cover attachment issues and electrical conductivity with under seat devices. [steel pan] While I'm all for new Bonnie parts and modifications,I just don't see this as a cheap or easy solution to a non problem.
I hope I'm totally full of it and Patty makes me eat my opinion.
I hope I'm totally full of it and Patty makes me eat my opinion.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
I agree mostly with you Rod. I like to remove my seat easily for working on the bike in large part...but would be nice to have it flip up for battery access etc. An effective hinge involving seat teardown may end up being expensive and therefore preclusive for many however. As to the stock pan...is is flexible to be sure. Only way to use the stock pan would be to have the hinge be more than just a discrete hinge but have a frame that ties into the pan in different spots to reinforce it. This will prove very challenging to retaining the stock seat height and a higher seat would be unsightly as you suggest. This ain't gonna be easy. Lets see what Patty comes up with.
You guys are absolutely right, in the fact that this is not going to be easy, not extremely hard, but definitely not easy! Right now I have the hinge and bracket made, they work really well, still retaining the removal of two bolts to remove the whole seat, right now I am just testing different latch locations, I want the seat to feel like its permanently mounted to the bike, no flex, no pops. I might elaborate on the idea im working with now. So far having the flip option is super convenient, you can keep a few tools under the seat, paper work, the litchen sink, etc. Im sorry I do not have any pics as of yet, but..........soon.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Patty are you saying that the seat is connected to the hinge and frame assembly by just two bolts? Perhaps you are using the tongue and two L shaped brackets to further engage the hinge/sub frame assy for support.
I look forward to your pics.
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