Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Gretsch

Rocker
"I disagree with them about motorcycle maintenance, but not because I am out of sympathy with their feelings about technology. I just think that their flight from and hatred of technology is self-defeating. The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower. To think otherwise is to demean the Buddha - which is to demean oneself."
 

MikeZenArt

Banned
"You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming. That concrete whizzing by five inches below your foot is the real thing, the same stuff you walk on, it's right there, so blurred you can't focus on it, yet you can put your foot down and touch it anytime, and the whole thing, the whole experience, is never removed from immediate consciousness."
 
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KingBear

Hooligan
Fathers, Sons, and Motorcycles

Friends, sorry to dig up an old thread like this (especially one started by a douche bag) but it's relevant.

I came across this article today in the NY Times, "Fathers, Sons and Motorcycles", and I thought some of you might enjoy it. It references Zen extensively as an introduction to a new book. Might be a good idea for a Father's Day present?

Now, in 2009, comes the story of another father and son who try to heal a broken relationship through the medium of motorcycles. This time it is the son who takes the lead. The book is “Big Sid’s Vincati: The Story of a Father, a Son, and the Motorcycle of a Lifetime,” by Matthew Biberman. A former student, Biberman is a professor of English at Louisville University and he lives his life in the very large shadow of his father, Big Sid, a 6-foot five-inch, 300-pound legend (certified as such by Jay Leno) who is “one of the best motorcycle tuners in the country if not the world.” The opposition Persig draws out between the analytic “knife” and the tactile, mobile reality it always kills is played out in the tension between the great motorcycle tuner who says things like “This is joyous work” and the Duke-educated academic who cannot find that joy in his research and teaching, but finds it, unexpectedly, in the work of saving his father, which is also (though he doesn’t know it at the beginning) the work of saving himself.

Read the whole article here... http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/fathers-sons-and-motorcycles/?ref=opinion
 

koifarm

Hooligan
As a practicing Buddhist I enjoyed the book tremendously, Pirsig has a nice way of explaining the philosophy so that a lay person can understand the relationship of self/Buddha and how the practice relates to daily influences and our relationship to those influences.
And now, on another note, I think I'll go and get the book to re-read.....
 

slowgator

750cc
Zen Again

KB: Thanks for posting this. I especially enjoyed the comments after the article. I’m with Rashid. I had a 1970 Triumph Bonneville about the same time I read “Zen and the Art…” for the first time. The oil leak on the Bonnie couldn’t be fixed, but I could buy a tray to clip under it at night to catch the oil. The Lucas electronics couldn’t be mastered and was known as the “Prince of Darkness” brand.

Now I ride a 2007 Bonneville and all those problems have been fixed, so now I just ride and try to figure out what Pirsig meant about quality, life and motorcycles.
 

slowgator

750cc
Pirsig Mystery

Pirsig has a nice way of explaining the philosophy so that a lay person can understand the relationship of self/Buddha and how the practice relates to daily influences and our relationship to those influences.

Koi: My hat is off to you for understanding Pirsig. I must be dumber than the average "lay person" and never quite caught Pirsig's definition of "quality".

Perhaps you can enlighten me?
 

EDG1911

Street Tracker
Koi: My hat is off to you for understanding Pirsig. I must be dumber than the average "lay person" and never quite caught Pirsig's definition of "quality".

Perhaps you can enlighten me?

The way I get it is that quality is how you perceive it.

the whole or the sum of parts.

Be the quality...owwwmmmmmmmmmm

:huh:
 

Kirkus51

Hooligan
To me quality is in the ride and not the bike. There's always been certain times on some rides where it all comes together and it's pretty darned spiritual for me.
 

Threewheelbonni

Two Stroke
IMHO: Self indulgent garbage possibly beating even "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" (and that had the odd explosion) into top place in a list of books that I've wasted hours of my life on.

Give me Ted Simon everytime for a decent bike related book.

Andy
 

Sal Paradise

Hooligan
http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/fathers-sons-and-motorcycles/?scp=4&sq=motorcycle&st=cse

Here is an exerpt regarding ZAMM

Pirsig’s book is an extended meditation on philosophy, rhetoric and fatherhood. The narrative follows a long motorcycle journey the author takes with his son and two friends. Another main character (present only in thought and imagination) is named Phaedrus. He is at once Pirsig’s alter-ego, a questing philosopher of daunting and destabilizing intellect, and the foil of Socrates in the Platonic dialogue that bears his name.

The philosophy Pirsig and Phaedrus wrestle with is a variant of the holism associated with phenomenology and with thinkers as diverse as Merleau-Ponty, Michael Polanyi, Martin Heidegger, Donald Schön, Thomas Kuhn, Erving Goffman and the later Wittgenstein (with Kant in the background). Different as they are in many respects, these philosophers share a conviction that knowledge of the world cannot be achieved by inventorying its discrete parts. Rather, they contend, the world must first be conceived or assumed whole and entire (don’t ask how) and the emergence of its parts and the possibility of describing them then follows.

Pirsig’s example is describing the parts of a motorcycle, an exercise that has no natural stopping point. But, he insists, no matter how much data the exercise heaped up, true comprehension would still not have been achieved, for the motorcycle “so described is almost impossible to understand unless you know how it works.” Rather than building up from particulars to generals (the empiricist method), you must begin with generals — with an in-place, intuitive awareness of what motorcycles are for, of what can go wrong with them, of what can go right with them — and within that tacit knowledge you will know where to direct your analytic attention. You can’t just begin with analytic attention, with “mere” or “pure” observation, and expect to get anywhere; you must already, in a sense, be there.

The problem is that once the parts or facts are made to appear, they seem to possess an independence, and it is (literally) tempting to rest in them and to believe that they are the foundation of things. (In theology this mistake is called idolatry.) “The division of the world into parts,” says Pirsig, “is something everyone does,” but in doing it, “something is always killed” — and what is killed is an awareness of and contact with the world before analytic thought has done its (necessarily) reductive work.


If we think of the world as a handful of sand sorted into separate piles, there are, Pirsig tells us, two ways of understanding it. “Classical understanding is concerned with the piles and the basis for sorting and relating them” while “romantic understanding is directed toward the handful of sand before the sorting began.” But (and here’s the rub) the handful of sand is only known as something that exceeds the sortings we have made of it; the whole world can never be grasped directly, and so we are always in danger of occupying ourselves with the wrong things. “What has become an urgent necessity,” Pirsig announces (he is hardly the first in history to do so), “is a way of looking at the world that does violence to neither of these two kinds of understanding and unites them into one.”

A tall order and Pirsig’s efforts to rise to it literally drive him crazy and lead him first to disengage from his family and then to undertake this journey in the hope that both his relationship with his son and the fractured pieces of his thought can be made whole.


The rest is about a father and son building a Vincati which of course is a Vincent and Duc.

vincati.jpg


Threewheelbonni I agree , although there are a few gems in the book. Its about an hour of reading per gem, I estimate. Overall, I think ZAMM is a waste of ink.
 

slowgator

750cc
Not So Fast My Friend...

Overall, I think ZAMM is a waste of ink.

I wouldn't go quite that far; it is at least an interesting story of a father and son on a motorcycle journey; I was enthralled from the first page. I remain haunted by the underlying quest to define "quality" which continues to elude me.
 

EDG1911

Street Tracker
Pirsig’s example is describing the parts of a motorcycle, an exercise that has no natural stopping point. But, he insists, no matter how much data the exercise heaped up, true comprehension would still not have been achieved, for the motorcycle “so described is almost impossible to understand unless you know how it works.” Rather than building up from particulars to generals (the empiricist method), you must begin with generals — with an in-place, intuitive awareness of what motorcycles are for, of what can go wrong with them, of what can go right with them — and within that tacit knowledge you will know where to direct your analytic attention. You can’t just begin with analytic attention, with “mere” or “pure” observation, and expect to get anywhere; you must already, in a sense, be there.

So I guess the ole harley boys sayin' kinda fits....If I got to splain it lucy wouldn't understand
 

neuroboy

750cc
check out "Shop Class as Soulcraft". . . it's been getting great reviews. like pirsig without the b.s.

here's the publisher's weekly review:
Philosopher and motorcycle repair-shop owner Crawford extols the value of making and fixing things in this masterful paean to what he calls “manual competence,” the ability to work with one’s hands. According to the author, our alienation from how our possessions are made and how they work takes many forms: the decline of shop class, the design of goods whose workings cannot be accessed by users (such as recent Mercedes models built without oil dipsticks) and the general disdain with which we regard the trades in our emerging “information economy.” Unlike today’s “knowledge worker,” whose work is often so abstract that standards of excellence cannot exist in many fields (consider corporate executives awarded bonuses as their companies sink into bankruptcy), the person who works with his or her hands submits to standards inherent in the work itself: the lights either turn on or they don’t, the toilet flushes or it doesn’t, the motorcycle roars or sputters. With wit and humor, the author deftly mixes the details of his own experience as a tradesman and then proprietor of a motorcycle repair shop with more philosophical considerations.
— Publishers Weekly, Starred review

517geRI9byL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
 

Threewheelbonni

Two Stroke
I'm not sure if it's (a) philosophy, but that could be a good read. Give it a year or twenty and bloke earning big money in the car dealer isn't going to be the one wearing the suite or the one who drives the computer. The old guy who thinks his way past "computer says yes-vehicle says no" will be the earner and maybe they'll be saying "back in 2009 I read...." ?

Andy
 

JimVonBaden

Street Tracker
Persig was certifiable, and though I enjoyed his book because he really could write, his "theories" have been pushed on unsuspecting college kids for years as some kind of genius! In reality, he was nuts and his theories were contrived fantasies!

IMHO

Jim :cool:
 

slowgator

750cc
It's Lonely At The Top

Persig was certifiable, and though I enjoyed his book because he really could write, his "theories" have been pushed on unsuspecting college kids for years as some kind of genius! In reality, he was nuts and his theories were contrived fantasies!

IMHO

Jim :cool:

The work of genius is widely misunderstood; although many of us are not able to grasp new and innovative concepts because we like what we know and know what we like, it does not, IMHO, devalue the extraordinary ideas presented by those of superior intellect.
 
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