Bonny engine upgrades 2001-2008

A

Aussie_T100

Banned
I recently wrote an article for our local British Motorcycle Owners Association newsletter on the New Bonneville engine. It was really just a summary outlining some of the design features, specifications, engineering changes and faults & flaws of the New Bonneville engines. If you want to have a look at it you can download it here:-

http://www.mediafire.com/?ycv8y06ynh03m15

I've since started to research a little deeper into the internal changes Triumph has made to this engine from 2001 to 2008 (pre EFI) and I have come up with the following:-

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Engine numbers 118829/118830 Alternator rotor bolt & crankshaft changed. (rotor bolt changed from M10 to M12)
Engine numbers 125459/125460 Clutch lifter arm changed.
Engine numbers 134325/134326 Cylinder head & oil cooler feed pipe changed.
Engine numbers 142537/142538 Transmission input shaft changed.
Engine numbers 146927/146928 Gear selector shaft & keeper plate changed.
Engine numbers 159168/159169 Transmission input shaft changed.
Engine numbers 163731/163732 Oil pickup/strainer assembly changed.
Engine numbers 173084/173085 Cam drive gear idler shaft changed.
Engine numbers 179828/179829 Transmission input & output shafts and all gears changed. (complete transmission upgrade)
Engine numbers 186916/186917 Cylinder head, Cam drive gear & idler shaft changed.
Engine numbers 199292/199293 Cylinder head stud changed.
Engine numbers 211132/211133 Cylinders, pistons, Clutch basket, friction plates, springs & clutch lifter arm changed. (790/865)
Engine numbers 221608/221609 Crankcases changed. (crankcase ventilation system & starter idler gear boss changed)
Engine numbers 236541/236542 Crankshaft changed.

Connecting rods (no information on when changes were made):-

1110120-T0301 Bolt & nut type (uses different bearing shells to below part numbers)
T1110111 Bolt & nut type
T1110500 Bolt only type

Note: T1110111 is the only part number still available suggesting other part numbers are superceded.
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My reason for posting this here is that I would like any input from those that may know more about these changes or other changes that I may have missed. More info on the conrod changes, or when they occurred, in particular would be useful.
 
dschief

dschief

750cc
Engine numbers 221608/221609 Crankcases changed. (crankcase ventilation system & starter idler gear boss changed)
I can vouch for this change, as my 2005 Thruxton broke the starter idler gear boss. Triumph replaced the cases 2 years out of warranty. I was told this change was made for 2007 onward engine cases.
 
geolpilot

geolpilot

Street Tracker
I have a 2005 bonnie. My engine number is 228113, so the engine case changes must have been before that.
 
dschief

dschief

750cc
geolpilot said:
I have a 2005 bonnie. My engine number is 228113, so the engine case changes must have been before that.
Click to expand...
I would have to look at my 2005 Bonnie to verify the number, but my Thruxton has a new number that was hand stamped, so I don't know what the original number was. They told me the original cases had to be shipped back to the UK for inspection at the factory. Maybe it was changed on the 865's only?
 
mikenva

mikenva

Rocker
uses different bearing shells to below part numbers ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? there have allways been 2 sizes of rod bearings whites and reds
 
A

Aussie_T100

Banned
mikenva said:
uses different bearing shells to below part numbers ARE YOU SURE OF THIS? there have allways been 2 sizes of rod bearings whites and reds
Click to expand...

Positive Mike, it's in the parts book. The parts book also says that there are three different bearings - red, white & blue.

I'll do a screen capture and upload it so you can see for yourself.
 
A

Aussie_T100

Banned
Here's the screen capture from the Triumph EPC program:-

CrankRods.jpg
 
A

Aussie_T100

Banned
Here's a better screen capture that reveals that the available red & white conrod bearing shells can only be used with the T1110111 & T1110500 conrods and the available blue conrod bearing shells can only be used with the T1110111 conrods. There's no mention that I can find of bearings being available for the 1110120-T0301 conrods.

ScreenCap.jpg


I don't know what that means for anybody with an engine that has the 1110120-T0301 conrods and needs to replace the conrod bearings except that they may have to change the rods as well.

EDIT: OK, I'm going cross-eyed from looking too long at this, there are bearings available for the 1110120-T0301 as you can see in the first image. But there are different part numbers for bearings for the different rods.
 
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A

Aussie_T100

Banned
I've been doing some more investigation into the conrods used in our twins and have discovered some interesting information:-

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T1110111 conrod used in:-

America, America EFI, Bonneville & Bonneville T100, Bonneville & Bonneville T100 EFI, Bonneville from VIN 38077 & SE, Daytona 750/1000, Scrambler, Scrambler EFI, Speedmaster, Speedmaster EFI, Thruxton, Thruxton EFI.

T1110500 conrod (no longer available) used in:-

America, Bonneville & Bonneville T100, Speedmaster, Thruxton.

1110120-T0301 conrod (no longer available) used in:-

America, Bonneville, Speed triple (carbs), Trident, Trophy (>29155).


T1110054 conrod bearing white (Twins - use with T1110111 & T1110500 conrods only) used in:-

Adventurer, America, America EFI, Bonneville & Bonneville T100, Bonneville & Bonneville T100 EFI, Bonneville from VIN 38077 & SE, Daytona 750/1000, Daytona 1200, 900 & Super III, Legend TT, Rocket III & Rocket III Classic, Rocket III Touring, Scrambler, Scrambler EFI, Speedmaster, Speedmaster EFI, Speed Triple, Sprint (carbs), Sprint RS, Sprint ST, Thruxton, Thruxton EFI, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Sport, Tiger, Trident & Trophy.

T1110055 conrod bearing red (Twins - use with T1110111 & T1110500 conrods only) used in:-

Adventurer, America, America EFI, Bonneville & Bonneville T100, Bonneville & Bonneville T100 EFI, Bonneville from VIN 38077 & SE, Daytona 750/1000, Daytona 1200, 900 & Super III, Legend TT, Rocket III & Rocket III Classic, Rocket III Touring, Scrambler, Scrambler EFI, Speedmaster, Speedmaster EFI, Speed Triple, Sprint (carbs), Sprint RS, Sprint ST, Thruxton, Thruxton EFI, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Sport, Tiger, Trident & Trophy.

T1110056 conrod bearing blue (Twins - use with T1110111 conrod only) used in:-

Adventurer, America, America EFI, Bonneville & Bonneville T100, Bonneville & Bonneville T100 EFI, Bonneville from VIN 38077 & SE, Daytona 1200, 900 & Super III, Legend TT, Rocket III & Rocket III Classic, Rocket III Touring, Scrambler, Scrambler EFI, Speedmaster, Speedmaster EFI, Speed Triple, Sprint (carbs), Sprint RS, Sprint ST, Thruxton, Thruxton EFI, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Sport, Tiger, Trident & Trophy.


1110051-T0301 conrod bearing white, 1110052-T0301 conrod bearing red, 1110053-T0301 conrod bearing blue (Twins - use with 1110120-T0301 conrod only) used in:-

Adventurer, America, Bonneville, Daytona 595/955i, Daytona 750/1000, Daytona 1200, 900 & Super III, Legend TT, Speedmaster, Speed triple, Sprint (carbs), Sprint RS, Sprint ST, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Sport, Tiger 885 carbs, Tiger 885i, Tiger 955i, Trident, Trophy.

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It's interesting to see that Triumph have used the same conrod bearings in many different bikes across the range and that the rods used in our twins are also used in some triples.

The 1110120-T0301 conrod appears to be the earliest of the rods used in the twins, because it does not appear in T100's or Speedmasters they probably ceased using it sometime prior to 2003.

The T1110500 conrod appears in all carbed models except the Scrambler which suggests they ceased using it sometime prior to 2006. I have seen some evidence which suggests this rod was still in use in 2005.

The T1110111 conrod appears in all models including EFI which suggests that it is the conrod currently in use and therefore the latest of the three types. The fact that it is the only conrod part number still available from Triumph also suggests that it supercedes the other two part numbers. I have seen some evidence that suggests this rod was in use as early as 2004.

It is possible that there was an overlap period, between 2004 & 2005 approximately, where both the T1110500 & T1110111 conrods were used.

The 1110120-T0301 & T1110111 conrods use a "through" bolt design, that is, the bolts pass through both halves of the conrod and are attached with nuts whereas the T1110500 conrod uses a straight bolt design without nuts where the bolts thread directly into the top half of the conrod.

I think I need a rest now. :)
 
mark66

mark66

TT Racer
It is possible that there was an overlap period, between 2004 & 2005 approximately, where both the T1110500 & T1110111 conrods were used.

I'd say yes because many times a manufacturer will use up existing inventory as they faze in a new part number change.....as long the part isn't a recall for safety reasons.
 
mikenva

mikenva

Rocker
Maybe i am not reading it right but it looks like the same part # bearings fit both rods .I have the 3 different rod designs the big end id is as is the bearing the same on all 3 I have.
The first rod had a bolt and nut the surface where the rod 1/2s meet is flat
The 2nd rod had a bolt the rod was threaded with a flat surface where the 1/2s meet
The 3rd the bolt is like the 2nd but the surface is waved in shape where the 1/2s meet
I dont know why they changed them so much over the years never hread of one fail.
 
A

Aussie_T100

Banned
mikenva said:
Maybe i am not reading it right but it looks like the same part # bearings fit both rods .I have the 3 different rod designs the big end id is as is the bearing the same on all 3 I have.
The first rod had a bolt and nut the surface where the rod 1/2s meet is flat
The 2nd rod had a bolt the rod was threaded with a flat surface where the 1/2s meet
The 3rd the bolt is like the 2nd but the surface is waved in shape where the 1/2s meet
I dont know why they changed them so much over the years never hread of one fail.
Click to expand...

The parts book definitely says different bearing for different rods:-

In the first image I posted it says:-

8 1110051-T0301 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, White STD A/R Can only be used with 1110120-T0301

8 1110052-T0301 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, Red STD A/R Can only be used with 1110120-T0301

8 1110053-T0301 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, Blue STD A/R Can only be used with 1110120-T0301


In the second image I posted it says:-

T1110054 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, White, Use with Con Rods T1110500 & T1110111 only

T1110055 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, Red, Use with Con Rods T1110500 & T1110111 only

T1110056 Bearing, Con Rod Shell, Blue, Use with Con Rod T1110111 only


There are three different rods, 1110120-T0301, which uses one type of bearing, and T1110500 & T1110111 which use a second type of bearing according to the parts book.

Thanks for the info on the different rod types you've seen firsthand. Are you sure that the third type of rod with the waved joint surfaces doesn't have "through" bolts with nuts?
 
mikenva

mikenva

Rocker
I am pretty sure i will look at them monday and see. As far as the bearings go something i have found the bearing thickness over lap from one size to another now and then you will find a white bearing that neasures the same as a red its kinda crazy less then .001 from one size to another in most cases any way.
IF there is a odd bearing for a old rod who knows then again they change parts numbers to so who knows.
 
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A

Aussie_T100

Banned
mikenva said:
yep the newer rods with the angle wave all have just the bolt no nuts
Click to expand...

Interesting - not the way I expected it to be.

An 08 crankshaft I have here has through bolts/nuts on the rods. I might have to have a look and see if the rods have the waved joint surfaces or not.
 
mikenva

mikenva

Rocker
What is funny at first look it looks like a wave but when you look closer its more of a angle cut.The way the rod comes out near the center of the cuts makes it look more of a wave.
You will find all kinds of changes that are not in the parts book on these bikes.I have a late 01 bike the head from the out side looks like the later head with the oil lines on the side but the ports are way different then ether the early or late head (they are like they should of made them all lol)What I think happened that was a small run of heads made to fill in before they got the new casting figured.I look at it this way if they change a part and it will still work with the rest of the motor they prob wouldnt give it a new parts number.They had to change the rod numbers beacuse they used different bolts.
I allso think they use up whats in stock before if they think they can get by with it.
And sometimes its the luck of the draw what part ends up in your motor.Everyone says only the early 790 came with the good 01 cams but my late 01 has them so go figure.
 
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