musicswapshoppe
Rocker
Envy the no helmet States. Not saying I would ride without one most of the time. But just being able to offer a lift when dont have a 2nd lid or pop down the road. Amyway sorry for hijack
Two types of riders
- Thread starter Gretsch
- Start date
geolpilot
Street Tracker
I have had only two minor accidents in 50 years of riding. On the first, in about 1971 I found myself sitting on a lawn and my Triumph about 50 feet away running while lying on its side. Hmmm, ought to shut it off. It was an in town S turn and I wasn't going very fast. There was nothing wrong with the road surface. I lost a tiny bit of skin on one finger, I slid on my leather jacket, my wallet in my jeans and my car keys. The second accident was on a Honda XL250S enduro in Honduras in the late 80s. I had a passenger and he was way too big. I had on boots and shorts and we went down at maybe 5 mph in a deep mud puddle. My injury was I burned hell out of my leg just above my right boot on the exhaust pipe right where it comes out of the engine. It was so hot, I saw it before I felt it. Hurt like hell for several weeks. So, no serious accidents and both at very low speed. I have also dropped bikes at a stand still quite a few times.
bikeypikey
750cc
Loads of valid points here, esp S3Chris & Bret.
Maybe you'd be interested to know, from what I've read in UK bike magazines, the most "at risk" group are what we call "Born Again Bikers". Those who had bikes in their teens/early 20's then due to marriage/career/e.t.c gave up for 20 odd years. Now, the kids have flown the nest, the job is stable(?) and they have disposable income so they go out and buy a modern bike.
In the UK, the preference is for sportsbikes but no matter what the style of bike, it seems the number 1 accident is running wide on a left-hander into the opposite lane and being hit by an oncoming vehicle. Reason - inexperience with the amount of power available so going in too hot and plain old fear that if they lean it over more, they'll come off.
I think it's also fair to say that in the UK, the creedo for the majority is ATGATT and as has already been mentioned, if you hit something, it's going to be "impact" type injuries like broken bones/damaged internals, whereas if you just "lose it" and slide, abrasive injuries are most likely.
Just my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Pikey.
Maybe you'd be interested to know, from what I've read in UK bike magazines, the most "at risk" group are what we call "Born Again Bikers". Those who had bikes in their teens/early 20's then due to marriage/career/e.t.c gave up for 20 odd years. Now, the kids have flown the nest, the job is stable(?) and they have disposable income so they go out and buy a modern bike.
In the UK, the preference is for sportsbikes but no matter what the style of bike, it seems the number 1 accident is running wide on a left-hander into the opposite lane and being hit by an oncoming vehicle. Reason - inexperience with the amount of power available so going in too hot and plain old fear that if they lean it over more, they'll come off.
I think it's also fair to say that in the UK, the creedo for the majority is ATGATT and as has already been mentioned, if you hit something, it's going to be "impact" type injuries like broken bones/damaged internals, whereas if you just "lose it" and slide, abrasive injuries are most likely.
Just my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Pikey.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Well said Pikey. What you write comports with the study as well and noteworthy about the demographic difference between the kind of motorcycles ridden in the UK versus the US. This also btw has a corollary to automobiles and their design evolution as well and why cruisers are so popular in the US. The roads are very different between Europe and the US...much longer and straighter roads in the US and why more of an onus on heavy cruisers which are long on style and can't turn. Automobiles have the same bias produced in the US which by and large are heavier, more softly sprung and don't turn as well. This is changing however as Europe and Asia has influenced American automotive design including increased fuel costs which are still much higher in Europe. The face of motorcycling is changing here as well as young people tend to get it more than old diehards and economics also comes into play.
The young guys are buying sport bikes versus cruisers and wearing appropriate gear and hence the thread about the decay of Harley Davidson. Also should be said that in some ways sport bikes are the opposite of cruisers with their racer ergonomics and a standard like a bonneville and how the street bike evolved makes the best overall sense. I hope that standards make a comeback as they just make more sense for fun riding.
The other thing you mentioned worth discussing relative to the study and what you wrote about not making the turn into incoming traffic pertains to cruisers and perhaps the death rate on bikes of that ilk. Having owned one, I can attest to this. Cruisers are downright dangerous to ride fast. They handle horribly and have no lean angle to turn without scraping which can make them stick and go over. Plus they are very heavy and harder to steer. They are steady in a straight line but if overcooking a curve and if the rider doesn't know how to countersteer which many newbies never learn in a panic situation...lights out. So this makes cruisers more dangerous IMHO and the saving grace for their owners is they generally don't like to ride as fast as sport bike guys.
The young guys are buying sport bikes versus cruisers and wearing appropriate gear and hence the thread about the decay of Harley Davidson. Also should be said that in some ways sport bikes are the opposite of cruisers with their racer ergonomics and a standard like a bonneville and how the street bike evolved makes the best overall sense. I hope that standards make a comeback as they just make more sense for fun riding.
The other thing you mentioned worth discussing relative to the study and what you wrote about not making the turn into incoming traffic pertains to cruisers and perhaps the death rate on bikes of that ilk. Having owned one, I can attest to this. Cruisers are downright dangerous to ride fast. They handle horribly and have no lean angle to turn without scraping which can make them stick and go over. Plus they are very heavy and harder to steer. They are steady in a straight line but if overcooking a curve and if the rider doesn't know how to countersteer which many newbies never learn in a panic situation...lights out. So this makes cruisers more dangerous IMHO and the saving grace for their owners is they generally don't like to ride as fast as sport bike guys.
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T-boy
Rocker
Give yourself some time before making such a decision, eh?
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
There have been a lot of crashes it seems on the forum this year. Sad to see and gives each of us pause to consider if its worth it. Seems like some get back on and others don't after an accident.
The way I see it Gretsch, is you have two options. Either stay at home and eat ice cream and watch TV with the wife and kids or...move out and join a Harley biker gang.
Whatever you decide will be best for you and I wish you the best and a full recovery.
PS: If you want to ship me your Street Triple until after you recover, I will be happy to work on it and make
sure the seals never get dry.
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bikeypikey
750cc
S3Chris, Agree with most of what you said but I need to point out that in the UK, it's sportsbike riders not making it through the turn as well as cruisers - they go in too hot and just don't crank it over (or countersteer - good point).
Gretsch, like T-Boy said, give yourself some time before making such a heavy decision and above all, make sure it's your decision alone. You may or may not be under "external pressure" to jack it in but how will you replace it and what kind of person will you be without bikes in your life?
Whatever your ultimate choice, hope you continue to hang around here
Cheers,
Pikey.
Gretsch, like T-Boy said, give yourself some time before making such a heavy decision and above all, make sure it's your decision alone. You may or may not be under "external pressure" to jack it in but how will you replace it and what kind of person will you be without bikes in your life?
Whatever your ultimate choice, hope you continue to hang around here
Cheers,
Pikey.
Iv'e been riding for 35 years, had a couple of small offs when I was a kid, both times in snow, now damage and I was unhurt. In 1998 I was out with some buddies, had a little too much to drink and hit some mud outside a construction site on a bend, dropped my bike and fractured an ankle. It was a good lesson. I always ride with a helmet, it feels unnatural not to for me, but I was brought up with helmets. On that day as I was close to home I wasn't wearing boots, may have come off better if I had been wearing some....
There is very rarely a thing call an accident. They can 99.99% of the time be avoided. Just take your time, keep your wits about you, and have eyes in your ass.
There is very rarely a thing call an accident. They can 99.99% of the time be avoided. Just take your time, keep your wits about you, and have eyes in your ass.
koifarm
Hooligan
One thing to mention however, is the collective experience dealing with traffic and other drivers is increased in "older" riders.
A person who has been driving for 40 or more years has a lot of experience driving. Sure it's in a cage but still if you put a 20 something up against a 40 something the older driver is going to have more experience on the road and therefore less likely to become over confident and get into an accident.
Certainly factored in to all that is bike driving experience but that is so easily overcome by older drivers and although it may contribute to some accident statistics it is really a minor factor well overcome by years of road experience driving a cage.
Just a thought or two...
A person who has been driving for 40 or more years has a lot of experience driving. Sure it's in a cage but still if you put a 20 something up against a 40 something the older driver is going to have more experience on the road and therefore less likely to become over confident and get into an accident.
Certainly factored in to all that is bike driving experience but that is so easily overcome by older drivers and although it may contribute to some accident statistics it is really a minor factor well overcome by years of road experience driving a cage.
Just a thought or two...
Moggy
Scooter
strokerlmt
Moderator
Pikey.....You are sooo right. I had been off for a long time. In 03 when I got the Bonnie I took a course and found out in 3 minutes how different the new bikes were.
LMT
Kirkus51
Hooligan
In the Mile High the weather is not horrible in the winter since it's pretty dry between snow storms, so I ride the Bonnie at least once a month year round. I forgot however that they put a lot of sand down during snow storms and it sits there til Spring. I'm pretty sure I could have stopped sooner and avoided my February accident a couple of years ago had the road been a bit cleaner, but maybe the asshole who pulled out in front of me....... You just don't know.
I do know the basic skills are not as good as they once were and I ride accordingly.
I do know the basic skills are not as good as they once were and I ride accordingly.
Aussie_T100
Banned
The poll is inadequate for most it would seem, as it is for me. I had numerous "offs" as a youngster before getting a license to ride on the road, these were all "off road" accidents and at fairly low speeds - no injuries beyond a scrape here and there. No safety gear was worn, most times I was riding in shorts and a T shirt with no shoes.
Once I was "on-road" I had two minor low speed "offs" in my mid twenties, one on bitumen and one on gravel, again no injuries beyond a little gravel rash. Both of these accidents involved alcohol and in both cases I was wearing a helmet, jacket, jeans & boots (thankfully).
No crashes in the last 30 years - touch wood.
Until I read this thread I had not thought about it much but looking back now it's interesting to consider the stats. All of my "accidents" were in the first 15 years of riding, all were single vehicle accidents, all were at low speeds and all but one was off road or on a gravel road. All accidents since I started riding on the road involved alcohol.
I've probably done more miles in the last two and a half years than I did in the first 15 years of riding so I must have wised up a little in my old age.
Once I was "on-road" I had two minor low speed "offs" in my mid twenties, one on bitumen and one on gravel, again no injuries beyond a little gravel rash. Both of these accidents involved alcohol and in both cases I was wearing a helmet, jacket, jeans & boots (thankfully).
No crashes in the last 30 years - touch wood.
Until I read this thread I had not thought about it much but looking back now it's interesting to consider the stats. All of my "accidents" were in the first 15 years of riding, all were single vehicle accidents, all were at low speeds and all but one was off road or on a gravel road. All accidents since I started riding on the road involved alcohol.
I've probably done more miles in the last two and a half years than I did in the first 15 years of riding so I must have wised up a little in my old age.
Gretsch
Rocker
Yeah the poll wasn't really complete but I only had 10 options and was pretty well medicated when I made it up. I'm not selling the Striple for now and the damage is minimal so I'm waiting on the medical stuff to be over before fixing her. As far as the accdient being avoidable on a different bike (like a Thrux or Bonnie) I don't think so. If your rear tire slips it's over (for me anyway). Here's a list of what I would have done differently for those that want to learn from my mistake:
1) Take an advanced riders class
2) ATGATT (I didn't have my VERY nice VERY expensive Sidi boots on)
The class could have taught me what to do in that situation although it was REALLY fast and I'm not sure I could have reacted even if I knew what to do. The boots may or may not have saved my leg but I sure wish I didn't have to speculate about it.
1) Take an advanced riders class
2) ATGATT (I didn't have my VERY nice VERY expensive Sidi boots on)
The class could have taught me what to do in that situation although it was REALLY fast and I'm not sure I could have reacted even if I knew what to do. The boots may or may not have saved my leg but I sure wish I didn't have to speculate about it.
oldmanjob
Scooter
I learned my lesson about proper gear 40 years ago, when I went and turned on to a side street, wearing shorts a tee shirt and sneakers, hit gravel and 4 months later my skin started to come back. Turned to dirt riding and always wore full gear. (did break some ribs when thrown off bike going down a fire road:bug
Started riding again in 2006 after a 35 year hiatus. Full face Nolan N102, Triumph Integra jacket, Draggin or Cortech jeans, Triumph Rapter gloves, Nitro boots, or swat boots. On June 14, 2008 the inevitable happened, going around a hair pin turn on my 06 black Bonnie, not counter steering, too fast and some gravel in the road, down I went. When I hit the ground on my left side, flipping over on my stomach, sliding across the road and shoulder watching all the gravel, rocks and road dirt pass before my eyes. Stopped sliding on the other side of the guard rail, got my breath back, and thought I was alright. The helmet saved my face, and the other gear survived with out a rip or tare, just looked like I was in a dusty enduro. Along with the bike being totaled I did have 5 broken ribs:w. I would have probably had a broken collarbone if it wasn't for the shoulder armor in the jacket. Without the full face helmet I would have had to have a face transplant. Was back riding by the middle of August, relegated to my wife's 883 sportster:bug:
Started riding again in 2006 after a 35 year hiatus. Full face Nolan N102, Triumph Integra jacket, Draggin or Cortech jeans, Triumph Rapter gloves, Nitro boots, or swat boots. On June 14, 2008 the inevitable happened, going around a hair pin turn on my 06 black Bonnie, not counter steering, too fast and some gravel in the road, down I went. When I hit the ground on my left side, flipping over on my stomach, sliding across the road and shoulder watching all the gravel, rocks and road dirt pass before my eyes. Stopped sliding on the other side of the guard rail, got my breath back, and thought I was alright. The helmet saved my face, and the other gear survived with out a rip or tare, just looked like I was in a dusty enduro. Along with the bike being totaled I did have 5 broken ribs:w. I would have probably had a broken collarbone if it wasn't for the shoulder armor in the jacket. Without the full face helmet I would have had to have a face transplant. Was back riding by the middle of August, relegated to my wife's 883 sportster:bug:
bikeypikey
750cc
Good man - take it easy and everything will be cool. Welcome back
Cheers,
Pikey.
Cheers,
Pikey.
Kirkus51
Hooligan
I sort of gave up riding (still had a bike) for ten years while I was over the road. By the time I got my three days off every month, all I wanted to do was get a good nights sleep, play some golf withe the folks and watch some cable TV. Started to get the itch again when I got off the road and needed to decompress.