Interesting story on Harley's declining sales
- Thread starter TC_Dick
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Kirkus51
Hooligan
Harley got it's act together in the mid 80s with the Blockhead engine. They built a good bike that was pretty leak proof. The article points out that owning a bike became a fashion statement and not necessarily an enthusiast's decision. I have always bought my bikes based on my need (and budget) at the time I bought them. When I got my FXRP in the 80s I actually was concerned about the "Harley" image because I'm not that tatted up Harley dude that seemed to me was riding them at the time. It wasn't the "in" bike at the time. The article seems on point to me.
However...... the reason I got my Bonnie was I bought a metric cruiser (Kaw) and regretted it just about as soon as I discovered I couldn't ride the thing more than 20 minutes without my back singing to me. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a New Bonnie out there until 2005 or so. As soon as I could afford it I looked at a couple of new Thruxes for cheap and they weren't for me but the second I threw a leg over a Bonnie I was in. The right amount of power, the right seating position for me. It was and is a joy to ride.
But even with that said, Triumph was targeting the guys who wanted relive their misspent youth with the Bonnie. That's why the demographics seem a bit skewed to er, ah, more mature gentlemen in this forum. Either they wanted one back in the day or their Dad had one.
Anyway, thanks for posting the Article.
However...... the reason I got my Bonnie was I bought a metric cruiser (Kaw) and regretted it just about as soon as I discovered I couldn't ride the thing more than 20 minutes without my back singing to me. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a New Bonnie out there until 2005 or so. As soon as I could afford it I looked at a couple of new Thruxes for cheap and they weren't for me but the second I threw a leg over a Bonnie I was in. The right amount of power, the right seating position for me. It was and is a joy to ride.
But even with that said, Triumph was targeting the guys who wanted relive their misspent youth with the Bonnie. That's why the demographics seem a bit skewed to er, ah, more mature gentlemen in this forum. Either they wanted one back in the day or their Dad had one.
Anyway, thanks for posting the Article.
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Sal Paradise
Hooligan
Peter Egan wrote about this back in the 1990s, saying that Harley can't keep "selling to the same guy" and that all manufaturers need to cultivate riders through cheap entry level bikes. Its a narrative with a certain appeal. Manufaturers got greedy and tried to sell expensive image bikes and it bit them in the ass.
I have friends right now bemoaning the money they have tied up in un sellable 800 lb Harleys and Victory's that no sane person would use as an everyday vehicle to go to the store or to work. Not to gloat but Triumph seems to be doing better and maybe its no coincidence that my Triumph is cheaper , lighter and a bit more useful locally.
I have friends right now bemoaning the money they have tied up in un sellable 800 lb Harleys and Victory's that no sane person would use as an everyday vehicle to go to the store or to work. Not to gloat but Triumph seems to be doing better and maybe its no coincidence that my Triumph is cheaper , lighter and a bit more useful locally.
Skeeter
Rocker
harley is now goin into the old skool flat black styling, which is what they think is cool right now. they have that sporty 48 thats retro lookin and neat but its just like a custom mini van. it might be cool but its still a mini van and most women drive it. PLUS the fricken thng is 12000 for a sportster. thin fo that money you can buy a triumph and still have 4000 left over
Bonniebret
Rocker
When I read that article all I could think was "How could they let that happen?". I mean HD is brilliant with their marketing. I think the problem was in R&D. They kept catering to the same crowd. In fact I think it's hurt them because although they promote themselves as a heritage/lifestyle brand there's a whole generation that associates new Harleys with rich old fat guys, weekend riders and sheep rather than hogs.
When it comes to cultivating their customer they should start marketing from cradle to grave rather than mid-life crisis to hip replacement. If they keep going in their current direction we should expect to see a new line of trikes out by 2013. Maybe they can tap that lucrative Goldwing market.
When it comes to cultivating their customer they should start marketing from cradle to grave rather than mid-life crisis to hip replacement. If they keep going in their current direction we should expect to see a new line of trikes out by 2013. Maybe they can tap that lucrative Goldwing market.
Sal Paradise
Hooligan
When it comes to cultivating their customer they should start marketing from cradle to grave rather than mid-life crisis to hip replacement. Bret.
+1 .
I hate that poser crap and the HD image. Plus those Nightsters and other poser bikes have like an inch of rear suspension and ergonomics from hell. Who is going to ride that in the real world of potholes, commuter maniacs and red lights? They need a commuter bike, a cheap starter bike and a cafe bike. They seem to be against that for some reason.
Oh well the brits and Asians will just have to take that money.
+1 .
I hate that poser crap and the HD image. Plus those Nightsters and other poser bikes have like an inch of rear suspension and ergonomics from hell. Who is going to ride that in the real world of potholes, commuter maniacs and red lights? They need a commuter bike, a cheap starter bike and a cafe bike. They seem to be against that for some reason.
Oh well the brits and Asians will just have to take that money.
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bikeypikey
750cc
Late 80's/early 90's boom was down to yuppies - same rich, bonus-fed twats bought porkers and ferraris to "be seen on" with no fucking idea of the heritage.
Fast forward 15 years and it's the "weekend warriors/Wild Hogs" that go into a H-D emporium and buy into the lifestyle ("Hawg Skin" condoms for fuck's sake!). Times are harder now,people are more perceptive (maybe?) and particular where they spend their money (definitely) so there are not so many of those kind around which is why H-D are hurting. IMO, they fucked up selling Buell and I see Eric has come back as Eric Buell Racing with an 1190 - I wish him the very best of success.
Meanwhile, Triumph goes from strength to strength.
Cheers,
Pikey.
Fast forward 15 years and it's the "weekend warriors/Wild Hogs" that go into a H-D emporium and buy into the lifestyle ("Hawg Skin" condoms for fuck's sake!). Times are harder now,people are more perceptive (maybe?) and particular where they spend their money (definitely) so there are not so many of those kind around which is why H-D are hurting. IMO, they fucked up selling Buell and I see Eric has come back as Eric Buell Racing with an 1190 - I wish him the very best of success.
Meanwhile, Triumph goes from strength to strength.
Cheers,
Pikey.
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koifarm
Hooligan
I think when you have that "image" to promote, and the fact that all the Davidson kids are out there promoting the "image" you're gonna get the kind of "Image" that attracts a certain demographic.
Harley Davidson has worked hard to promote that lifestyle and image and banking on the fact that it will sell bikes. It will sell bikes, to that narrow demographic of the Harley image seekers, they, in turn, are narrowly focused on that particular machine that promulgates the required image that they choose to project.
And that's the problem....they are running out of new customers. The died in the wool old school customers are getting old and needing trikes to still maintain that lifestyle. I was reading yesterday about several sidecar manufacturers who no longer make sidecars but have switched to trikes which are outselling sidecars ten to one. That should tell you something.
Sure thing, Harley is suffering as the slowly dwindling numbers in the sales department indicate. Sales are being directed to a vastly diverse group of riders which, in turn, dilutes the Harley demographic of riders thereby causing the slump in sales.
Basically, it had to happen. Why Harley didn't see it coming I'll never know, nor, do I really care. I've had exactly two Harleys in my lifetime, both were enjoyable, both sportsters and both a lot of fun. But I'm over the physical discomfort and reliability issues and now prefer my Bonneville for it's ease of maintenance, look, style and cost. Apparently a lot of others feel the same way.
Harley Davidson has worked hard to promote that lifestyle and image and banking on the fact that it will sell bikes. It will sell bikes, to that narrow demographic of the Harley image seekers, they, in turn, are narrowly focused on that particular machine that promulgates the required image that they choose to project.
And that's the problem....they are running out of new customers. The died in the wool old school customers are getting old and needing trikes to still maintain that lifestyle. I was reading yesterday about several sidecar manufacturers who no longer make sidecars but have switched to trikes which are outselling sidecars ten to one. That should tell you something.
Sure thing, Harley is suffering as the slowly dwindling numbers in the sales department indicate. Sales are being directed to a vastly diverse group of riders which, in turn, dilutes the Harley demographic of riders thereby causing the slump in sales.
Basically, it had to happen. Why Harley didn't see it coming I'll never know, nor, do I really care. I've had exactly two Harleys in my lifetime, both were enjoyable, both sportsters and both a lot of fun. But I'm over the physical discomfort and reliability issues and now prefer my Bonneville for it's ease of maintenance, look, style and cost. Apparently a lot of others feel the same way.
AceT100
Rocker
I wanted a Harley in 2007, I went & looked at the Heritage Springer (the one with the springs on the front end) but by the time I'd priced it up with the very few extra's I wanted, it was over $23k....
Decided I needed to think about it....Passed the Triumph store on the way home & dropped in....and bought the Bonnie...for less than a third of the HD cost.
Haven't regretted that choice.
Decided I needed to think about it....Passed the Triumph store on the way home & dropped in....and bought the Bonnie...for less than a third of the HD cost.
Haven't regretted that choice.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Harley has been good at making a particular type of bike...perhaps the best ever at it...but that demographic is literally dying off. In the face of a terrrible economy, this 1-2 punch will seriously test the aging marque. As to why they haven't stepped up...they tried it with the V-rod and got buried...including a mid control version that didn't sell. Reality is, there is too much competition in other types of bikes for Harley to compete without complete retooling and that means a huge expenditure in reinvestment. Their R&D isn't versed to compete with all the throttle by wire bikes out there now. When they floundered with the V-rod they turned to Porsche for engine help.
Things don't look good for Harley. Not the first they have fallen on hard times. When bought by AMF their bikes hit a low watermark...from bad to worse. I am not sure this time they will re-emerge as I don't see disposable income coming back to earlier levels nor aging guys that like Harley's finding a fountain of youth. Jesse James says the big tire chopper is dead as well. Good riddance is what I say. Young guys I meet and ocassionally ride with all ride sport bikes....cheaper and faster and more reliable. I do believe the diverse business model that Triumph has implemented to be a good formula for hopefully enduring the great recession.
UK's economy mirrors that of the US...both are awful.
Things don't look good for Harley. Not the first they have fallen on hard times. When bought by AMF their bikes hit a low watermark...from bad to worse. I am not sure this time they will re-emerge as I don't see disposable income coming back to earlier levels nor aging guys that like Harley's finding a fountain of youth. Jesse James says the big tire chopper is dead as well. Good riddance is what I say. Young guys I meet and ocassionally ride with all ride sport bikes....cheaper and faster and more reliable. I do believe the diverse business model that Triumph has implemented to be a good formula for hopefully enduring the great recession.
UK's economy mirrors that of the US...both are awful.
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West
Scooter
Couldn't agree more. I had friends telling me that their Harley was an investment, that values would only go up.
I could see that it was just a fashion statement for many and would soon wear off. People with more money than sense would buy one, get cold and wet and then park it. I figured that something would shift with the demographic and you would'nt be able to give them away... that day has come.
Try to sell a $500k McMansion, speed boat or Jet ski for anywhere close to what you paid these days. What is not necessary or useful is a tough sell.
I'm thinking a good investment might be to buy a dozen or so pristine Harleys at penny's on the dollar, hold them until folks forget and start spending money they don't have again, and sell them as "classics" for triple what I paid for them.
Bonniebret
Rocker
I had some kid salesman tell me that at a dealer last month! He said they hold their value. LOL! Obviously he hasn't been on craigslist lately.
Skeeter
Rocker
ahaha on my god, everyone is askin 10,000 for their 7 year old bike. they are deff not holdin their value. sad but ohh well
Kirkus51
Hooligan
Harley is between a rock and a hard place. They've been building what they've been building for decades and knew they had customers for their bikes. What they've done recently is gear up to make tons of em and now that they have the capacity they just don't have the customers.
Smells kinda like the early 50s when Brando rode that Tbird and the british bike industry invaded the U.S. and kicked ass for a couple of decades. Then the Japanese invaded and kicked everybody's ass. Killed off the English, but at least Triumph got back in the game and builds bikes that people can get into.
As a postscript, Willie G. Davidson, is no longer the design Guru at Harley. How hard would it be to design something between a Buell and a Sportie that might actually handle fairly well and go pretty good?
Smells kinda like the early 50s when Brando rode that Tbird and the british bike industry invaded the U.S. and kicked ass for a couple of decades. Then the Japanese invaded and kicked everybody's ass. Killed off the English, but at least Triumph got back in the game and builds bikes that people can get into.
As a postscript, Willie G. Davidson, is no longer the design Guru at Harley. How hard would it be to design something between a Buell and a Sportie that might actually handle fairly well and go pretty good?
Sal Paradise
Hooligan
Couple friends of mine are trying to sell theirs beause they say they " have too much money tied up in it". Ha! I want to tell them to ride them and not worry about it. The money is gone. Problem is - only other old guys will buy those 800 lb gorillas. Lots of them for sale. Those monsters are no fun around town either. Many hate the image too.
Unless things turn around soon, the economy will probably look a lot like it did in the 1970s when the Ford plant closed and my dad became a janitor. Barely enough income for one junker car for the family to ride in. Dad did however buy a moped in an effort to save gas money so small cheap stuff will always sell.
Triumph may be doing okay but these are bad times and every manufacturer is sweating and hoping this will end. I wouldn't want to be invested in motorcycle manufacturing now.
Unless things turn around soon, the economy will probably look a lot like it did in the 1970s when the Ford plant closed and my dad became a janitor. Barely enough income for one junker car for the family to ride in. Dad did however buy a moped in an effort to save gas money so small cheap stuff will always sell.
Triumph may be doing okay but these are bad times and every manufacturer is sweating and hoping this will end. I wouldn't want to be invested in motorcycle manufacturing now.
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