Hurricane Sandy

[Sal Paradise]

So guys it was like " The Perfect Storm" here Monday. Had 50 mph winds at my house, heavy rains, but the big news - and everyone knew this ahead of time - 12 FOOT STORM SURGE. If you never been to NYC you might think thats not unheard of. Well the skyscrapers of Mahattan with all those millions of people and corporartions with billions of dollars in them? Well the ground floor of almost all of them, the sidewalk level , is considerably less than that. Like 6 feet. The West Side Highway is like 5' elevation. So when you see this on TV for 12 hours -

Why the hell would you stay in a tiny house on a barrier island at elevation 5'? I mean you know 100% certainty its going to flood. Yet almost everyone stayed. And this is what happened to them-

The results were predicatable if you were a writer of Hollywood Horror Movies. Here is the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel filling with water.

Cars left in a " safe " spot.

and Jersey too-

Jersey sufferedn incredible damage. The famous " Jersey Shore" is gone.

And it gets worse, now no one has gas within 50 miles of the city. Even the gas stations in the Hudson Valley are getting tapped out. I'm 60 miles away and my town has gas and no problems but just two towns away every gas station is closed. And who knows if those people will come and tap out my stations. The Hudson river was full of ships and barges all week, just anchored as NYC harbor was pretty much desolated.

Worse even than all that , its cold now and millions of people have no electricity. Half of Manhattan is dark ;

Of course just like Hurricane Irene and 911 the bullshit mill is going full blast as peole with no information repeat verbally over and over again. Theres another hurrican coming, theres a gas shortage( not true) there wont be any trains for two months, just nightmare rumours. And try telling some of these people they are wrong. They can't believe you would dare!!!! Cue the bible thumpers and other charlatans.

After Irene last year everyone now thinks this is the new normal. Whether people change their lives and move away from the ocean, or spend billions waterproofing lower manhattan who knows. It aint over yet, the supermarkets are getting pretty bare and its cold out. I work for a state agency and our regional headquarters is without grid power and likely will be on partial generator power for 7 - 14 days.

On the plus side much of the Hudson Valley is unscathed. I never lost electricity , I filled all my fuel tanks before the storm and obviously I have internet. My supermarket appears to be fully stocked. So I'm fine. My buddy lives in Manhattan and he has a Bonneville as well. After a couple off days walking to work he says he is taking the bike out of storage for use in the city.Kinda cool in a Mad Max sort of way. I can't imagine the insanity of riding in Manhattan without traffic lights.

 

[DandyDoug]

I feel bad for all the folks who heeded the order and evacuated .

I do not for the life of me understand those who stayed " if they had someplace or way" to evacuate.

We lived in FL. for a long time before moving to NC.
We always paid attention to the warnings, watches and evac orders.

My ultimate plan was to evac to Atlanta, wait a few days then call and see if there was any reason to return or just call the insurance company .

 

[B06Tang]

Of course just like Hurricane Irene and 911 the bullshit mill is going full blast as peole with no information repeat verbally over and over again. Theres another hurrican coming, theres a gas shortage( not true) there wont be any trains for two months, just nightmare rumours. And try telling some of these people they are wrong. They can't believe you would dare!!!! Cue the bible thumpers and other charlatans.

After Irene last year everyone now thinks this is the new normal. Whether people change their lives and move away from the ocean, or spend billions waterproofing lower manhattan who knows. It aint over yet, the supermarkets are getting pretty bare and its cold out. I work for a state agency and our regional headquarters is without grid power and likely will be on partial generator power for 7 - 14 days.

I'm glad you are doing good Sal and good to hear the HV didn't get slammed in all of this too. I know what you mean about how things are handled - I was here in Japan during the 3-11 9.0 quake and was literally less than 20 miles from the tsunami. It was this little air base that fed life back into northern Japan and I remember watching the news in shock...complete shock from the bullshit they were pumping out to the people. They weren't informing the masses for the purpose of news....they were feeding the sensationalistic machine that drives their ratings. Absolutely fucking horrible and I had family calling me freaking the fuck out thinking we were radiated. I can only imagine how the news agency is handling this one.

I feel bad for all the folks who heeded the order and evacuated .

I do not for the life of me understand those who stayed " if they had someplace or way" to evacuate.

We lived in FL. for a long time before moving to NC.
We always paid attention to the warnings, watches and evac orders.

My ultimate plan was to evac to Atlanta, wait a few days then call and see if there was any reason to return or just call the insurance company .

I think it is a human normalcy to want to remain in your own cave because 90% of the time your cave offers you the best protection that you receive during your lifetime. I realize there are contradictions in this rationale but humans are not rationale creatures. I have seen this time and time again doing 20 years in the military but peoples reactions will be to stay put during a crisis and "hunker" down. A disruption of a schedule is incredibly unsettling to the vast majority of people and usually disrupting your schedule equates into something horrible happening. Keep to your schedule and things will work themselves out are what the actions usually explain. This is why the military practices emergency and disaster response exercises so frequently and why we are good at it. History has shown through and through that peoples reactions are opposite to the desire of evacuating and most times have to be directed to do so.

 

[Sal Paradise]

Here are some Fukishima type photos of Jersey

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49646622/#.UJQ59IacySo

 

[Baltobonneville]

I also don't understand the thinking behind staying behind on a barrier island when a hurricane approaches. The people who had to be rescued (the lucky ones) after ignoring evacuation orders should be charged the full cost of the rescue, at least.

I've noticed that the shit hits the fan when Americans can't get all the gasoline we want, whenever we want it. God help us if we ever have real, chronic gasoline shortages. Nothing else seems to provoke to violence so quickly.

NYC man accused of pulling gun in gas line:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/02/nyc-man-accused-of-pulling-gun-in-gas-line/1676745/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

 

[Bonneville09er]

here in Staten Island its like a war zone along the shore. total destruction

 

[B06Tang]

I've noticed that the shit hits the fan when Americans can't get all the gasoline we want, whenever we want it. God help us if we ever have real, chronic gasoline shortages. Nothing else seems to provoke to violence so quickly.

You think that is just in America? Guess again....petroleum controls the world. I work in that field and we were flying in bladders of gasoline after the earthquake to help sustain the local area. C5s and C130s with bladders strapped down on pallets being flown in around the clock. That reaction to chaos isn't just the states if petroleum supply lines are cut

 

[2wheelsdown]

I live in Alabama, a couple of hours from the coast, and I have family on the coast. Evacuate/don't evacuate is always a big question everytime a storm rolls in. However, it seems like the people in the more rural areas of the Gulf Coast prepare to take care of themselves if they decide to ride out a storm. I think the desperation in the northeast is due to a large population in a small area without much experience in hurricane preparation. This is similar to the Katrina problem. When a mandatory evacuation is ordered, staying put is just selfish. If you decide to stay, you must be prepared to fend for yourself. Many people just seem to believe that if anything goes bad they will be rescued and taken care of. How many times will a situation like this have to occur before that mindset is changed?

The mayor of Staten Island was quoted in the news as saying “This is America, not a third world nation. We need food, we need clothing. My advice to the people of Staten Island is: Don’t donate the American Red Cross. Put their money elsewhere.” What you needed to do was leave when you saw a major storm heading to your barrier island. Other residents of the island are moaning that they are forgotten and nobody has shown up to take care of them. Why do they take for granted that there is a "somebody" to ride to the rescue? I firmly believe in and participate in natural disaster recovery, but I also believe in taking care of myself so others don't have to.

Sorry for the preaching. The news coverage on the post-Sandy situation has really gotten me fired up.

 

[strokerlmt]

I have experienced several hurricanes and my wife has seen two. One destroyed our condo/apartment and everything we had. After 33 years in the Caribbean I watched Sandy and knew from experience that the water was going to be the killer. When we watched the news the next day my wife started to cry when she saw the destruction and devastation. I had flash backs to horrible scary situations have have experienced. The situation in NY and NJ will get worse before it gets better and my prayers go out to all affected. Off course having the marathon was a stupid call ;-))))
LMT

Found out yesterday they cancelled the marathon....someone woke up

 

[Sal Paradise]

As far as people who stayed - there was only a zone 1 evacuation. A tiny area. Those are the ones in Breezy Point and on theSouth shore of Staten Island. Everyone else was told to stay put. I'm not sure but I think it was the same thing in Jersey. The reason for this is that it is impossible to evacuate NYC. Trust me, I lived my whole life in the Metro Area and ten years in NYC. There is really no place in the US like Manhattan for density and infrastructure problems. There is no way to build a city like this which generates the immense money that NYC does - with 100% safety. Again, its impossible to evacuate quickly. It now needs to be bailed out fast and rebuilt with Federal money ASAP.

So don't go bashing peple without differentiating - 99% of the people you see on TV were told to stay put. Keep that in mind.


As far as the bullshit going around Matt - I'm talking about B.S. from people who have no TV/internet/radio and just make shit up. They always say " I heard this." or " I heard that..." Its infuriating and its total bullshit. I think the government is doing a pretty good job at information and also relief.

 

[KingBear]

Glad you came out of this with no major damage, Sal. I think New York is going to be just fine. New Yorkers are tough, intelligent, resourceful people. I have absolutely no doubt they will make a remarkably swift and complete recovery. New Jersey will have a much more difficult time of it. They will require considerably more time and assistance.

When I was in high school my family moved from California to Louisiana, just outside New Orleans. No offense to anyone who lives there, but as one who has I feel justified in saying New Orleans is a fucked up city in a fucked up state. Katrina was overkill - a storm much smaller could have wiped that city out. Only the most popular and necessary features have been rebuilt, and much of the area is still in ruins.

Best wishes to everyone in the affected areas. The entire country is behind you.

 

[2wheelsdown]

As far as people who stayed - there was only a zone 1 evacuation. A tiny area. Those are the ones in Breezy Point and on theSouth shore of Staten Island. Everyone else was told to stay put. I'm not sure but I think it was the same thing in Jersey. The reason for this is that it is impossible to evacuate NYC. Trust me, I lived my whole life in the Metro Area and ten years in NYC. There is really no place in the US like Manhattan for density and infrastructure problems. There is no way to build a city like this which generates the immense money that NYC does - with 100% safety. Again, its impossible to evacuate quickly. It now needs to be bailed out fast and rebuilt with Federal money ASAP.

So don't go bashing peple without differentiating - 99% of the people you see on TV were told to stay put. Keep that in mind.

Good points Sal. Thanks for pointing those issues out.

 

[RumRunner]

My heart breaks for everyone up there. I know it's easy to say that people should have left, but keep in mind that many of these people have gone through decades of storms and never had issues. Take the house I grew up in, in the 35+ years mom lived there, and 45 years prior to that it had never gotten a drop of water inside of it. Even through the Perfect storm or Irene yet that home had over 5' of water inside of it. Watching the videos of the carnage online is just shocking mother nature shows you her wrath every now and then.

 

[Sal Paradise]

We now have to deal with people who just WILL NOT STAY PUT. They are driving 200 miles round trip to sit on line for 3 hours get 10 gallons of gas for their generator and fill their SUV. And that is causing all kinds of trouble. It was in the paper that one guy from Jersey took 100 gallons in 5 gallon cans plus filled his truck. They are wiping out the gas supply in a 50 mile raduis. Tree crews can't get down to Jersey work on the lines because their is no fuel here to get them there. Delivery trucks are running out of gas. There are literally no gas cans at any store within 100 miles of the city. Stuff like that.

On the radio they are asking people to conserve gas but people only care about their own immediate comfort. They are frantic and desperate.

But its a small inconvenince for me. I'm not in a position to complain. But its really reallly annoying.

 

[RumRunner]

I hear that a friend of mine got a Delivery of 8000 Gals on Saturday at 3am. By 11am he was out of gas. Seems to be plenty of diesel around though...

 

[Sal Paradise]

The demographics of NY and NJ are just so huge. One person mentions it on faceboook and they rush there.

The generator thing is really bad. I have a fireplace that makes light and heat and a good wood supply. I'm downhill from the water plant and uphill from the sewer plant..I think I'd stay put as long as I had some books to read, someone to snuggle in bed with and food. But people are crazy these days. They have to react, and get things lit up and going and get the refrigerator on. Me, I would probably put my fridge on the back porch. Its cold now .... there was an article in the paper today about how the parents are keeping the travel soccer leagues going in the blacked out areas. Its crazy.

 

[RumRunner]

Generators should be dual fuel, and running on Natural gas that way you don't have to run out for fuel. It's going to be a long time to things are back to normal

 

[B06Tang]

We now have to deal with people who just WILL NOT STAY PUT. They are driving 200 miles round trip to sit on line for 3 hours get 10 gallons of gas for their generator and fill their SUV. And that is causing all kinds of trouble. It was in the paper that one guy from Jersey took 100 gallons in 5 gallon cans plus filled his truck. They are wiping out the gas supply in a 50 mile raduis. Tree crews can't get down to Jersey work on the lines because their is no fuel here to get them there. Delivery trucks are running out of gas. There are literally no gas cans at any store within 100 miles of the city. Stuff like that.

On the radio they are asking people to conserve gas but people only care about their own immediate comfort. They are frantic and desperate.

But its a small inconvenince for me. I'm not in a position to complain. But its really reallly annoying.

I understand your frustration completely Sal and know what it is like when the public goes into panic mode like that. It is next to impossible to control and what some consider an "emergency" ends up being a luxury. During the 9.0 quake over here, the base had to post security forces at the commissary and we were running augmented security at all of our fueling infrastructures and this is on a base! The second day, Congress approved the mass evacuation of the dependents from bases on the mainland. The news might have reported it was due to the disaster that happened but I am here to tell you that they evacuated the dependents to curb the chaos factor. Spouses and dependents got a plane ride back to their home of record and active duty could then stay behind, dig in and take care of this problem. I realize that this option existed because of living in a military society and that this is not a choice for a civilian populated area. I just wanted to point out the comparison as far as when fear and panic sets in.

The most impressive aspect of all this though were the Japanese because as their stores ran out of food and gas stations went dry...the people still remained in single file lines helping each other and there were no reported cases of looting or violence. I just hope we don't see the worse in people once the reconstruction continues and all the shady contractors come out of the woodwork with their fangs hanging out.

 

[Sal Paradise]

You are right on several counts, particularly the petroluem panic.

Looting has been little or none. Most of the reaction is of people in NY and NJ is pulling together, although they did have to post police at gas stations.


Its damn cold now and with another storm coming its on everyone's mind.

 

[Mark]

http://photosbymk.phanfare.com/slid...osbymk.phanfare.com/5811392#imageID=171766956