Flat battery

J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
My battery is dying. I went for ride today, down to the beach. I only turned the bike off for around 10 minutes but it didn't have enough grunt to start the bike afterwards. It has sounded a little tired lately. But this time it was gone. Fortunately I was able to bump start the bike and it runs just fine, but doesn't like starting.

Now I have no idea how old the battery is. I bought the bike 6-9 months ago and it is an '08. So it could just be that the battery needs replacing. How do I check if it's something more sinister? Of course batteries only ever die on a long weekend! I ride most days and ride for at least a 1/2 hour each time. It's been fine until this week.

Is there a recommended battery? Should I stick with whatever is stock?

Thanks guys!
 
B06Tang

B06Tang

Cafe Racer
I have always stuck to the stock batteries for both my bikes. Put a charge on it and see what happens. If it is still weak or dies down quickly afterwards on you, then you know it is cooked. I would guess though if it is an '08, then you probably need to throw a new one in there
 
monty

monty

Street Tracker
Try popping a multi meter across the terminals of the battery when its running. I am guessing a reading about 14volts should say all good in the charging dept. My battery is going the same way and is from 2008.
I normally go for Yuasa.

Monty.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Ok I just checked my bike after leaving it on the trickle charger all night. Disconnected the charger, read 13V. Tried starting but no luck - a very tired effort at first then nothing at all. I can hear the solenoid clicking very clearly but with the battery now at 12.6V the starter isn't even registering.

It's annoying because the bike shop won't be open until Tuesday and the weather is so perfect right now!
 
KingBear

KingBear

Hooligan
Do be prepared when you go to buy your battery, though. Most dealers stock the batteries dead, so you will either need to allow time for them to charge it or to put it on your own trickle charger overnight. You will want to set your charger on the lowest setting to get a slow, deep charge to ensure the best life and performance. Either way, you shouldn't expect to go buy a battery, drop it in you bike, and head out riding right away.
 
Kirkus51

Kirkus51

Hooligan
Battery might be good. If your bike is a fuelie they've programmed the starting sequence with very little margin of error as I understand and a ten minute ride might not have been enough to re-charge the drain on your Juice Box.

If your bike is a carbie, then you might have to get a new battery.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Yeah it's a carby. I do tend to ride for more than 1/2 hour bursts. Sometimes it's hard to force myself to go home. :)
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Oh dear... I have my new battery, charged it up to full with the trickle charger and nothing. Well not exactly nothing - I can hear the solenoid clicking, but absolutely nothing from the starter motor. Faulty solenoid?
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Few more checks - battery connects to solenoid. Solenoid solid connection to starter motor. There is voltage across the solenoid skinny wires when the starter button is pressed - over 12.6VDC. It clicks when the starter button is pressed, but absolutely nothing from the starter motor.

With the bike switched off I am getting 6.3VDC across the big connections of the solenoid. Is that normal? I would have expected zero.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Wow - some Triumph dealers... Called the one where I bought the battery today to ask about solenoids. Described the symptoms to him - " Aw mate it could be anyfing. There are that many relays in there - it could be the solenoid but it could be a relay. There's one that dims the headlight when the starter is pressed, that might not be working" So I said yes, I thought of that but it does seem to dim the lights when the button is pressed, which would indicate that it works - "aw yeah mate but it still could be anyfing..."

Do you keep solenoids in stock? "Aw yeah mate but it might not be the right one - there are that mant types and triumph keep changing 'em mate. Might not have the right one. And there's that many relays..." So I looked. There are two on my carb'd Bonnie. "Aw mate could be anyfing - you'll have to bring it in. We're so busy now..." And how do I bring it in? It won't start!

So I called the other dealer in town and described the symptoms. He said "Sounds like the solenoid." Not a relay? "nah, sounds like they work" Do you keep the right one in stock? "Yeah of course. Triumph have used the same solenoid since they first reintroduced the Bonneville"

So stuff it. Tomorrow I buy one and if that doesn't fix it I know which dealer I will be seeing to fix it!
 
P

Pauljp

Scooter
I have a Bonneville, but I imagine what I am about to say is true for yours as well.
The solenoid should have two large wires on it.
One goes directly to the battery (fused??), the other to the starter.
So even with the key off, one side should have 12 volts approx to ground.
So if you take a large screwdriver and short out the two large contacts on the solenoid your starter should turn, even with the key off, it won't start, but it should turn the engine.
Before you do this ensure the bike is securely standing and it is in neutral or the clutch is in.
By shorting out the solenoid connectors, you are bypassing everything else in the starting system.
In effect, you now only have three items to turn the engine, the battery, the large cables and the starter.
If the starter turns, then the battery, cable and starter are fine and the problem is the solenoid.
If the starter doesn't turn, then it can only be the battery, cables or starter, then I would boost the battery to determine if it is the problem.
I am saying this is the way I would do it, if you are uncomfortable then by all means bring it in and have the techs work on it.

The reason that you are getting 6 volts across the solenoid connections is because one side is 12 volts and the other is going through the starter windings to ground which is resistance dropping you to 6 volts.
 
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J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Thanks Paul - that makes sense to me. Or should I say merci! (My wife is a big Georges St Pierre fan)

FWIW I am quite comfortable with the electrical side of bikes. Although not a tech, I have built many guitar amplifiers and love working with circuits.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
I just checked - from the red large wire connection to the solenoid to ground was over 12V, and it connects to the starter perfectly. But I did what you suggested and put the bike in neutral on it's centre stand and shorted out the big solenoid connectors and absolutely nothing.

The battery is brand new and has been topped up with my trickle charger until the charger says it is full. All the fuses are fine. So maybe it's the connection to ground on the starter motor? I checked the black connection big wire on the solenoid and it doesn't appear to connect to ground. (edit) Ok looking at the schematic it goes to ground via the starter motor, so wouldn't show continuity to ground because of the resistance of the motor.

So I'm confused now. Maybe the solenoid is not the problem. It must be something with the starter motor or its connections.
 
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P

Pauljp

Scooter
The large wire from the solenoid would not go to ground, it goes directly to the starter, the starter gets its ground from being bolted to the engine.

battery+ ---->solenoid---->starter

Since you say the battery is good and all the fuses then I would suspect the starter.
If you really want to test that, take a jumper cable directly from the battery+ side right to the starter itself, it should turn. If not, then definitely the starter.
Did you get any sparks when you shorted the solenoid?
You can see the top three devices on my schematic link below - Battery-cable-solenoid-cable-starter.
Since you shorted out the solenoid and your starter still didn't turn, it would appear to be the starter.
Can you check the ground from the starter to battery-(neg).
My bike has a ground wire from engine to frame, if that came loose or broke, then the starter has no ground and wouldn't turn.

Click here for schematic diagram.
 
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J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Nope - no sparks. Tested the solenoid by checking that yes, 12V was across the terminals when the start button was pressed, explaining the click. Disconnected the big wire that goes to the starter motor and yes, there was continuity between the two big terminals when starter pressed. So as far as I can see the solenoid does actually work.

So I took that black wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter and connected it directly to the red that goes to the battery. Nothing - no sparks, nothing. So effectively I have connected the starter directly to the battery because everything tests perfectly for continuity.

Tested continuity (again!) of that black wire and it makes perfect contact with the starter motor. In fact behind that little rubber cover the connection with the starter motor was as clean as the day it was bolted together.

So all that tells me that the starter motor is to blame. I can't see how the headlight relay could be to blame. The battery is reading 12.8 VDC.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Do you know where the starter ground is? I guess I have to remove the starter motor to find it? Damn - I just changed the oil a month or so ago. I would imagine that the ground is the issue.

BTW Paul I really appreciate your help. This is really bugging me! You have far better grasp of all this than any of the "experts" here.
 
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