Flat battery

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Pauljp

Scooter
Then one last thing I would check to verify the ground.
Take some jumper cables, connect them to the battery.
Put the neg side to the casing of the starter or a bolt on the starter.
This will ensure a good ground.
Then touch the positive cable to the connector of the starter.
For sure this should make it turn.
Are you absolutely sure your battery is good? Even a bad battery can show 12 volts when there is no load on it.
You can test the battery by turning on your headlights and brakelights and even the horn, they should stay on for several minutes to know that you have a good battery.
Let me know what happens.

Edit: Sorry, I just read your post where you said that you just bought a new battery, so that can't be the problem.
Try running a separate ground to your starter as a last test, but it is looking more like the starter is the problem.
 
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Pauljp

Scooter
The starter would not have a ground wire.
It gets its ground through the casing which is bolted to the engine.
The engine should have a ground wire connected to the frame which returns to the battery neg side.
At least on my bike it is like this.
 
P

Pauljp

Scooter
JimmyR said:
BTW Paul I really appreciate your help. This is really bugging me! You have far better grasp of all this than any of the "experts" here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for saying that Jimmy, but I am certainly no expert.
I just bought my very first bike in my life last summer.
I only have 3,600 km on it now and I only have a learners permit.
My road test is at the end of June, hopefully I will pass and be able to ride by myself, currently I need someone to be with me at all times. Sucks.
Anyway, I love working on machines (cars, bikes, whatever).
My wife was in shock when I got my new bike home and immediately started taking it apart in the garage.
I have YouTube videos showing tank removal and siphoning among others here.
 
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BlueJ

BlueJ

Blue Haired Freak
Having been through those exact same symptoms, and the exact same set of diagnostics, only to discover the "issue" was very simple, I'd suggest you try this:

Disconnect the battery cables from the battery and then reconnect them, making sure they are tight.

For me, the positive side cable had wiggled just loose enough to make a 'click' but then to oxidize right at the contact point and block further juice. Literally wiggling the connecter and tightening it down fixed the "problem".

Worst part is... that happened to me more than once. And each time, the lengthy diagnostics, followed by that "DOH!" moment when I remembered to check that connector.

Good luck!

And also - it's possible for the battery to indicate 12.8V but not still not have enough current to turn the motor. Batteries are cheap.
 
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Pauljp

Scooter
BlueJ said:
Having been through those exact same symptoms, and the exact same set of diagnostics, only to discover the "issue" was very simple, I'd suggest you try this:

Disconnect the battery cables from the battery and then reconnect them, making sure they are tight.

For me, the positive side cable had wiggled just loose enough to make a 'click' but then to oxidize right at the contact point and block further juice. Literally wiggling the connecter and tightening it down fixed the "problem".

Worst part is... that happened to me more than once. And each time, the lengthy diagnostics, followed by that "DOH!" moment when I remembered to check that connector.

Good luck!

And also - it's possible for the battery to indicate 12.8V but not still not have enough current to turn the motor. Batteries are cheap.
Click to expand...

Excellent points Blue, that's usually what happens, spend all day troubleshooting just to find a simple item that was wrong.
Indeed, batteries can show a full charge when not under load.
I believe Jimmy got a new battery in post #11, so we assume it to not be the problem. And since he just changed the battery I also assume that the cables are tight.
Although it could be a number of things, I am leaning towards a faulty starter.
Perhaps it was starting to cease slowly, thus giving the illusion that his original battery was getting tired as he stated in the first post.
Of course we should have Jimmy try the things that you stated since it is easier than pulling the starter.
Thanks again.
 
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JimmyR

Street Tracker
Thanks heaps for all the suggestions guys. The only glimmer of hope I have had so far (fitting little tests between jobs, etc) is when I reconnected the ground at the battery and got a sluggish response from the starter. Not enough to start the bike, but at least something. Since then I have cleaned connections, tapped the motor to see if brushes may have dirt on them, but still nothing. I will probably bump start it and take it to the more helpful dealer. Sigh...
 
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JimmyR

Street Tracker
Well I have tried everything within my narrow range of abilities. Today I bump started the bike and took it to the better of the two dealers here. What gives me confidence in them is that they suggested much the same things as you have Paul.

I really like this bike, and I am surprised at how strongly I felt about leaving it with strangers! I am keen to find out what they discover. Shops probably think I'm that PITA customer because I always want to find out exactly what they did - not because I don't trust them (although sometimes that is true) but because I want to learn. The Suzuki dealership I use for parts for my other bike (a resto/mod of an '82 GS1100) are fantastic because they are so helpful and take the time to explain things to me. I almost took the Bonnie there instead.
 
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Pauljp

Scooter
good luck Jimmy, I'm betting it is the starter.
You put it right to the battery and it did nothing.
Keep us informed of the findings.
Hope you get it back soon.
Cheers.
 
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JimmyR

Street Tracker
Paul you are absolutely correct - unfortunately. The starter motor is toast. The seal between the motor and engine failed and the starter motor got filled with oil. So now I'm up for Aust$1400 just for the starter motor. And it has to come from Melbourne - 3500kms away so it won't be here until next week. I am really struggling without my bike! Perfect riding weather here and no bike.
 
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Pauljp

Scooter
Wow, that's a lot of money for a starter.
I'm glad we got it figured out though.
I guess the good news is that your old battery is probably still good, so you have a backup.
I managed to get my bike out for a 40km ride in 2c weather, cool but enjoyable.
Mother Nature is threatening us with 15cm of snow this Friday, it just doesn't seem to end this year.
Let us know when you get your bike back and how it runs.
Cheers mate.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
It's weird - a friend of mine in Sweden is pissed off because it's still snowing there. Whereas here summer is still here with a vengeance. It's so damn hot! We've had the hottest start to an April in over 100 years.
 
bonZa

bonZa

Street Tracker
thats an obscene amount of money for a starter. would have thought one would be available from the wreckers. wonder if they are common to other bike brands.
also, could the starter be cleaned with solvent and dried in order to repair. have seen that done on industrial electrical motors plenty of times

edit, just had a look at the parts book. the starter is sealed to the crankcase by an o ring. hard to see how a static o ring could deteriorate to the point where it would leak. makes me think the previous owner may have dismatled it for some reason and pinched the o ring on reassembly
 
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JimmyR

Street Tracker
No unfortunately it is the actual starter motor. I had a look at it today and it was in a very sorry state. It's too far gone to rebuild. It's all very strange. The bike has only done 13000km but the brushes were totally gone and the bit of the motor they contacted was worn very badly. Beyond lathing. One theory is that the oil made a hot spot on that area, but I am starting to wonder if the PO put in a used starter.

The other thing that baffles me is that it started so well until Good Friday. Being used to starting carbed Harleys it always amazed me how the trumpy would start first time. The whole thing is very, very odd.
 
B06Tang

B06Tang

Cafe Racer
You should contact PinWall and ask them if they ever get that part in. Also...every so often you will see a totaled bike get sold off on fleabay. I have bought bolts, fasteners and other things by doing that. Something to consider but that sure is a lot of money for a starter
 
T

Twodogs

Street Tracker
bonZa said:
thats an obscene amount of money for a starter. would have thought one would be available from the wreckers. wonder if they are common to other bike brands.
also, could the starter be cleaned with solvent and dried in order to repair. have seen that done on industrial electrical motors plenty of times

edit, just had a look at the parts book. the starter is sealed to the crankcase by an o ring. hard to see how a static o ring could deteriorate to the point where it would leak. makes me think the previous owner may have dismatled it for some reason and pinched the o ring on reassembly
Click to expand...

Anything in Australia with Triumph stamped on it is an obscene amount of money. Everybody is quick to write the batteries off if there is a starting issue but if kept charged or ridden regularly they last for some time. My 05 and 06 batteries are still going well. which reminds me I should go and put them on charge, sucks not being able to ride.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
I checked the price of a starter motor in the UK from a place I have gotten parts from before. It's stupidly expensive there too!

Oh well. I picked up my bike today and it starts. Yay. The new starter motor works.
 
J

JimmyR

Street Tracker
Well I enjoyed the ride home! I'm flying out at 5.00am tomorrow for a job and the forecast for the next few days is for thunderstorms. :-(

But thanks! I love riding this bike.
 
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