Bonneville1
Scooter
Is it wise? I read in real classics that its not advisable, any thoughts please?
AI Removal on an EFI
- Thread starter Bonneville1
- Start date
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
There is a lot of misinformation about EFI bikes out there in particular with respect to tuning. I was one of the early guys who removed AI from my EFI T100 and developed the resistor substitution for the AI solenoid to satisfy OBDII diagnostics.
Removing AI is one of the best mods I have made to my bike and if you scour the web, you should be able to find an in depth DIY I put together to help others a while ago. If interested in doing this but can't find the procedure, send me a PM.
Cheers.
If you have a chance, please elaborate on what real classics had to say. Note: US spec bikes don't have cats in the header pipes but European spec bikes do.
Removing AI is one of the best mods I have made to my bike and if you scour the web, you should be able to find an in depth DIY I put together to help others a while ago. If interested in doing this but can't find the procedure, send me a PM.
Cheers.
If you have a chance, please elaborate on what real classics had to say. Note: US spec bikes don't have cats in the header pipes but European spec bikes do.
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Bonneville1
Scooter
Real classics didn't elaborate on the subject, just said better left alone?
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
In that case maybe they are members of the flat earth society.
Chris in NC
Street Tracker
Why?.. the primary reason guys removed the AI on the carb'd bikes was popping on decel and bluing of the pipes. The EFI bikes do neither.
I put 3,300 miles on my '09 T100 before I sold it, and I had zero popping and about 2" of mild bluing when I sold it.
I put 3,300 miles on my '09 T100 before I sold it, and I had zero popping and about 2" of mild bluing when I sold it.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Chris,
If you have stock pipes...popping issue is twofold:
- stock pipes flow less air in/out mixing with residual gas at throttle closure + oxygen injected due to AI = no or very little popping.
- stock pipes are more effective at masking popping.
Virtually all EFI bike with aftermarket pipes with AI pop on decel...just like carbed bikes. AI removal eliminates popping with aftermarket pipes that most run and reduces throttle snatchiness due to less O2 sensor variation.
If you have stock pipes...popping issue is twofold:
- stock pipes flow less air in/out mixing with residual gas at throttle closure + oxygen injected due to AI = no or very little popping.
- stock pipes are more effective at masking popping.
Virtually all EFI bike with aftermarket pipes with AI pop on decel...just like carbed bikes. AI removal eliminates popping with aftermarket pipes that most run and reduces throttle snatchiness due to less O2 sensor variation.
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Speed3Chris: The post you are talking about is on TriumphRat.net (linked).
I performed the mod this weekend and was an amazing success. I took it a little further in wrapping the wiring in a waterproof heatshrink tubing with hermetic connectors. All parts were purchased from RadioShack.
I would like to comment on the removal of the AI stem from the cylinder head: you wont find a socket deep enough to reach the hex, I recommend using a 13mm cresent or cutting the tube. Luckily mine wasnt torqued down too tight and was easy to remove.
Chris in NC: Not sure if my elevation has anything to do with it but my EFI bonnie pops like crazy. The pipes are also very blue, purple in some spots.
I performed the mod this weekend and was an amazing success. I took it a little further in wrapping the wiring in a waterproof heatshrink tubing with hermetic connectors. All parts were purchased from RadioShack.
I would like to comment on the removal of the AI stem from the cylinder head: you wont find a socket deep enough to reach the hex, I recommend using a 13mm cresent or cutting the tube. Luckily mine wasnt torqued down too tight and was easy to remove.
Chris in NC: Not sure if my elevation has anything to do with it but my EFI bonnie pops like crazy. The pipes are also very blue, purple in some spots.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Best way to reduce snatchiness over and above AI removal?
Make sure your throttle bodies are balanced and check TPS calibration.
Snatchiness is a chronic problem with many EFI bikes across brands due to transistion from open to closed loop aka O2 sensor controlled fueling to TPS dictated map tables. Best way? Remove/disable O2 sensors with tuneboy or Power Commander. EFI bikes have best throttle response in closed loop provided fueling is adjusted for altitude.
Cheers.
PS: Snatchiness varies from bike to bike if you have a chance to ride other EFI bikes. My bike out of the box is very un-snatchy for example compared to others I have ridden. A bit of a lottery based upon sensor tolerances that can be somewhat tuned out with TB balancing and TPS calibration. Chain slack even matters in this context as well.
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Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Best method is crimp the tube with wire cutters, fatigue it and snap it off about 1 inch above the hex nut at the top of the cylinder. Then simply use a deep 6 sided socket and long extension. That the easiest method anyway...lots of ways to do it.
Nice job on sealing the resistor.
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
Hey Ryan,
No worries there. The air injection pockets that the tubes thread into do NOT connect to the combustion chamber (if the case it would be a problem for compression)...residual fragments will be drawn right into the headers. Combustion and exhaust gas exporting from the exhaust ports into the header create a vaccum that will draw the dust right out as air is no longer being injected to push them out as you know.
HTH.
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Speed3Chris
I like Dick
May or may not. Dealers are a persnickety lot with a commercial interest of course. Most dealers have been removing AI from Hinkley bikes for years. Some actually believe that removing AI from EFI bikes is bad even though its good...some dealers will remove AI from EFI bikes for a charge and some will likely invalidate warranty if they don't remove your AI and gain the commercial benefit. You have to call your dealer and find out. AI is an emission control device and some dealers depending on where you live will be relucant to remove it also for environmental liability.
PS: Removing AI will not stop the snatchiness...will only lessen it incrementally. To virtually eliminate snatchiness, as I mentioned previously, you need to disable the O2 sensors from the bike which is what you have to do with most closed loop EFI bikes from Honda to Ducati if you want throttle response closer to a carbed bike. If doing so, keep in mind you lose the adaptive quality of the EFI which adjusts AFR for elevation aka air pressure.
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Speed3Chris
I like Dick
You're welcome and let us know what your dealer says.
newbonnierider
Scooter
I am getting ready to do this, but I cant find the 50 ohm 10 watt resister that you noted in your how to post. I am not very good when it comes to these numbers, would a 10 ohm 10 watt work, or do I really need the 50 ohms?
Speed3Chris
I like Dick
A 10 ohm may work but I wouldn't try that value. What you want is something that replicates the resistance of the AI solenoid which has been measured at about 20 ohms or so. A higher replacement resistance has been known to work...up to 100 ohms so I would not go below say 30 ohms and not above 100 ohms. Radio Shack sells 50 ohm ceramic resistors rated at 10W. 10W's is also overkill in current capacity but best to err on this side as a cool circuit is better than a hot one especially under the tank with high engine heat...the ECM draws very little current through this circuit.
Also, polarity with resistors doesn't matter.
Hope that helps.
Resistor I used below...no issues.
Also, polarity with resistors doesn't matter.
Hope that helps.
Resistor I used below...no issues.
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Brushwarrior
Scooter
Wonder if spanner made for brake pipes would get in there or those clawfoot type spanners? just a thought :-D
Steve